Political involvement of physics majors/graduates

[Catria]

Now, I don't think it's really an explicit function of the major itself so much than a question of the intellectual dispositions and inclinations of who actually go on to major in physics, and graduate from college with a physics degree (undergrad or advanced).

Perhaps I have the wrong impression due to my particular undergrad (and no, it's not Berkeley, Columbia or CU-Boulder) where physics students (undergrad and grad) are rather politically active, and that it may not be representative of what goes on elsewhere. The contrast is obvious with the other major physics department in my hometown, where apathy runs rampant but that may also be because a different demographic attends one vs the other (academics-wise there is no significant difference).

But, since I couldn't write the question in full in the title, are physics majors/graduates, on average (or as a group) more or less politically involved than the average Joe?

 

[Borek]

the average Joe?

Average Joe, or average graduate?

 

[Catria]

Average Joe, or average graduate?

We may well have different answers if you took average Joes and average graduates so, if you have an answer to provide, please list each reference frame separately if it makes a difference.

 

[Borek]

I don't have an answer, I am just pointing to the fact question is poorly defined.

 

[ZapperZ]

Now, I don't think it's really an explicit function of the major itself so much than a question of the intellectual dispositions and inclinations of who actually go on to major in physics, and graduate from college with a physics degree (undergrad or advanced).

Perhaps I have the wrong impression due to my particular undergrad (and no, it's not Berkeley, Columbia or CU-Boulder) where physics students (undergrad and grad) are rather politically active, and that it may not be representative of what goes on elsewhere. The contrast is obvious with the other major physics department in my hometown, where apathy runs rampant but that may also be because a different demographic attends one vs the other (academics-wise there is no significant difference).

But, since I couldn't write the question in full in the title, are physics majors/graduates, on average (or as a group) more or less politically involved than the average Joe?

The problem with this question is that, unless someone has a particular statistics that addressed this particular issue, then what you will get will be either anecdotal, or simply guesses. Is this what you want? Because if it is, then we could easily be discussing either an inaccurate observation, or a non-existent issue, since none of them are backed by any reasonable evidence.

And that, by itself, boils down to why I have little patience for politics. I follow them, and I try to keep myself informed as a citizen, but I can't stand statements and assertions and claims made by many that are not backed by any kind of evidence. It seems to be a common practice in politics to proclaim "I want to cut taxes!" and somehow that is sufficient for the masses to buy into, but without any kind of details on "how much are you cutting, what are you cutting, and how will this effect so-and-so", or the proclamation that such-and-such is detrimental to the sanctity of marriage, but leaving out the details on what is meant by "detrimental" and what are the evidence to support such a claim.

So unless people have proper evidence to support your question, I will lump it into the same category as all these unsupported statements. The discussion then will simply be a matter of tastes, rather than facts.

Zz.

 

[zoobyshoe]

The problem with this question is that, unless someone has a particular statistics that addressed this particular issue, then what you will get will be either anecdotal, or simply guesses.

This is true, but it is still the same sort of question I might, myself, ask. The point is not to gather hard facts, but to take an informal poll of people's perceptions. The question might be rephrased: what's your perception of physics majors? Are they more or less politically interested than others?

What do you get from that? Well, it's a pulse-taking of the current perception of the matter at PF, at least.

 

[ZapperZ]

This is true, but it is still the same sort of question I might, myself, ask. The point is not to gather hard facts, but to take an informal poll of people's perceptions. The question might be rephrased: what's your perception of physics majors? Are they more or less politically interested than others?

What do you get from that? Well, it's a pulse-taking of the current perception of the matter at PF, at least.

But that is a different question than what the OP asked. I can only take it at face value and not try to formulate it into the way that I want it to appear. People who confuse or can't tell the difference between the two is another set of problem that I do not wish to tackle.

Zz.

 

[Tosh5457]

Now, I don't think it's really an explicit function of the major itself so much than a question of the intellectual dispositions and inclinations of who actually go on to major in physics, and graduate from college with a physics degree (undergrad or advanced).

Perhaps I have the wrong impression due to my particular undergrad (and no, it's not Berkeley, Columbia or CU-Boulder) where physics students (undergrad and grad) are rather politically active, and that it may not be representative of what goes on elsewhere. The contrast is obvious with the other major physics department in my hometown, where apathy runs rampant but that may also be because a different demographic attends one vs the other (academics-wise there is no significant difference).

But, since I couldn't write the question in full in the title, are physics majors/graduates, on average (or as a group) more or less politically involved than the average Joe?

Not in my former university, no. I also met many mathematicians and the same could be said, there were 1 or 2 involved but nothing else. Law students, apart from political science students of course, are the most involved in politics by far.

 

[zoobyshoe]

But that is a different question than what the OP asked. I can only take it at face value and not try to formulate it into the way that I want it to appear. People who confuse or can't tell the difference between the two is another set of problem that I do not wish to tackle.

I'm not reformulating it into what I want it to be. I'm allowing for this (anecdotal perceptions) being what the OP was interested in. You yourself were not clear whether that's what the OP wanted or not:

The problem with this question is that, unless someone has a particular statistics that addressed this particular issue, then what you will get will be either anecdotal, or simply guesses. Is this what you want? Because if it is, then we could easily be discussing either an inaccurate observation, or a non-existent issue, since none of them are backed by any reasonable evidence..

My point was that, a bunch of anecdotes is not completely useless if you consider it a poll of current perceptions.

 

[Catria]

Not in my former university, no. I also met many mathematicians and the same could be said, there were 1 or 2 involved but nothing else. Law students, apart from political science students of course, are the most involved in politics by far.

I can understand law students getting involved: how their day-to-day jobs are performed (if they're good enough and/or attend a law school prestigious enough to get a job requiring bar passage) will be affected by political decisions.

I'm not reformulating it into what I want it to be. I'm allowing for this (anecdotal perceptions) being what the OP was interested in. You yourself were not clear whether that's what the OP wanted or not:

My point was that, a bunch of anecdotes is not completely useless if you consider it a poll of current perceptions.

And, sometimes, anecdotal evidence can spur the search for hard facts afterward...

 

[skeptic2]

[QUOTEAnd, sometimes, anecdotal evidence can spur the search for hard facts afterward...[/QUOTE]

So here's an anecdote.
I was in college during the period of widespread campus unrest of protesting the war in Vietnam in the late 60s. On my campus there were two groups known as the Heads and the Jocks. The Heads were primarily physics and math majors with a few history and political science majors. They tended to be non-conformist, intellectual and politically liberal and activist. The Jocks were the athletes and tended to be conformist, politically conservative and somewhat less intellectual.

However, after I graduated I found that these stereotypes were not universal. Particularly in my field of engineering, many of the the engineers I've worked with and who were physics majors were not at all liberal. So in the end I don't think one can stereotype students by major.

 

[slider142]

This article may be of interest to your statistics, although it is slightly dated: http://www.people-press.org/2009/07/09/public-praises-science-scientists-fault-public-media/ . It contains a poll of 2,533 members of the AAAS, and contains political leanings. It appears to support the idea that most scientists in the AAAS identify as liberal.

 

[Tobias Funke]

So here's an anecdote.
I was in college during the period of widespread campus unrest of protesting the war in Vietnam in the late 60s. On my campus there were two groups known as the Heads and the Jocks. The Heads were primarily physics and math majors with a few history and political science majors. They tended to be non-conformist, intellectual and politically liberal and activist. The Jocks were the athletes and tended to be conformist, politically conservative and somewhat less intellectual.

However, after I graduated I found that these stereotypes were not universal. Particularly in my field of engineering, many of the the engineers I've worked with and who were physics majors were not at all liberal. So in the end I don't think one can stereotype students by major.

Yes, a lot of stereotypes don't have much to do with reality. Arguably the greatest athlete of the time (Ali) summed up his opposition to the war--in one sentence--as well as any "Head" could. Polls done at the time also showed that less educated people were more opposed to the war than those with more education.

For what it's worth, and I haven't tried to follow up on it, I have heard that engineering and business majors (as well as doctors and dentists) on the whole tend to be conservative. As for physics and math, I have no idea if there is any overall trend or even a stereotype.

 

[Ryan_m_b]

If you want anecdotes then my university experience was quite different to yours. Could be a cultural thing (I'm from the UK) but political activism was almost entirely the domain of humanities, arts or social-sci students. Pretty much no science students were involved, despite being a huge portion of the campus. There was one big attempt by science students to address this, there were many proposed reasons from the campus geography placing the science buildings away from the main quad to the student union policies being unpopular with scientists (anti-GM for example). Not much came from it, I felt because it blamed the non-scientists too much and didn't take into account things like the lack of political considerations in our lectures versus everyone else.