- #36
stewartcs
Science Advisor
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Ivan Seeking said:...Either way, religion also dicates that we were created by God but Catholics believe in evolution.
How can you believe in evolution and also believe God created you?
Ivan Seeking said:...Either way, religion also dicates that we were created by God but Catholics believe in evolution.
stewartcs said:How can you believe in evolution and also believe God created you?
Evo said:Article #7 is pretty much verbatim what they printed in the article.
The leader of more than a billion Roman Catholics suggested that fears over man-made emissions melting the ice caps and causing a wave of unprecedented disasters were nothing more than scare-mongering.
The German-born Pontiff said that while some concerns may be valid it was vital that the international community based its policies on science rather than the dogma of the environmentalist movement.
Moonbear said:Stewardship of the Earth is a Catholic issue, and that's the authority from which he speaks on the subject.
The German-born Pontiff said that while some concerns may be valid it was vital that the international community based its policies on science rather than the dogma of the environmentalist movement.
Ivan Seeking said:True. He doesn't claim to talk to God, but it is his job to determine the official church view of world events and other issues.
Furthermore, he claims to go beyond a simple one on one discussion but to communicate on behalf of the entire 'we' of the church, something a bit more than the parishioner alone can do."Ars celebrandi": here too I would say that there are different dimensions. The first dimension is that the "celebration" is prayer and a conversation with God: God with us and us with God. Thus, the first requirement for a good celebration is that the priest truly enter this colloquy.
In proclaiming the Word, he feels himself in conversation with God. He is a listener to the Word and a preacher of the Word, in the sense that he makes himself an instrument of the Lord and seeks to understand this Word of God which he must then transmit to the people. He is in a conversation with God because the texts of holy Mass are not theatrical scripts or anything like them, but prayers, thanks to which, together with the assembly, I speak to God.
...Thus, to be well in tune, it is very important to understand this structure that developed over time and to enter with our "mens" into the "vox" of the Church. To the extent that we have interiorized this structure, comprehended this structure, assimilated the words of the liturgy, we can enter into this inner consonance and thus not only speak to God as individuals, but enter into the "we" of the Church, which is praying. And we thus transform our "I" in this way, by entering into the "we" of the Church, enriching and enlarging this "I," praying with the Church, with the words of the Church, truly being in conversation with God.
chemisttree said:Since the good book is the word of God, anything we say that contradicts that is just plain wrong... and he isn't afraid to tell us so.
True, Catholics don't use the bible, they use the Roman Catholic Missal. I don't ever remember reading from the bible in all of my years at catechism or mass.gravenewworld said:Actually Catholics don't take the Bible literally at all. That would be other Christian denominations. I went to a Catholic grade school, high school, and college. Learned about evolution at every single level.
And like Ivan said Revelations according to Catholic theology is nothing more than a book filled with symbolism and was written during the time of Roman persecution. Catholics don't take that book literally at all or believe that it contains any prophecies. There will be Catholics out there who will disagree with what I just said, but they are not up to date on Church teaching.
Benzoate said:I think the pope has the right to expressed his opinion on global warming just like any politician or political pundit.
Evo said:True, Catholics don't use the bible, they use the Roman Catholic Missal. I don't ever remember reading from the bible in all of my years at catechism or mass.
Not in our church.gravenewworld said:?
During the Liturgy in a Catholic mass 3 readings are read from Bible.
Usually in a typical mass the priest will conduct the mass from the Missal and during the Liturgy someone from the audience will come up to the podium and read a segment from the Bible.
Do you remember any of these Latin jokes?Evo said:Mostly Father Nelson would read from the Missal, then crack jokes, oh, and we'd sing a lot, but that was back when it was all in Latin.
The jokes were in English.jimmysnyder said:Do you remember any of these Latin jokes?
A priest of having sex with a consenting adult female - deviant!Evo said:He was excommunicted when I was 11 for being married and having 10 children
mgb_phys said:A priest of having sex with a consenting adult female - deviant!
I thought he mainly broke off due to his anger over the Catholic church selling "redemption" to restock the coffers that the corrupt Medici Pope bankrupted on his lavish lifestyle.drankin said:That's strictly a Catholic doctrine and not a biblical decree. This is one of the reason Martin Luther broke away from the Catholic church of the time.
jimmysnyder said:Do you remember any of these Latin jokes?
Evo said:I thought he mainly broke off due to his anger over the Catholic church selling "redemption" to restock the coffers that the corrupt Medici Pope bankrupted on his lavish lifestyle.
:rofl:gravenewworld said:ubi o ubi est meam sub ubi?
:rofl::rofl:gravenewworld said:modo fac id
jimmysnyder said::rofl:
:rofl::rofl:
drankin said:That's strictly a Catholic doctrine and not a biblical decree. This is one of the reason Martin Luther broke away from the Catholic church of the time.
Evo said:I thought he mainly broke off due to his anger over the Catholic church selling "redemption" to restock the coffers that the corrupt Medici Pope bankrupted on his lavish lifestyle.
Celibacy has been in and out of fashion many times in the RC church with 7 popes being married themselves and 11 being the sons of clerics with a further 6 known to have had illegitimate offspring.Evo said:He was excommunicted when I was 11 for being married and having 10 children, seriously. That's when I quit the church, I told my mother I refused to attend anymore and she understood. Father Nelson was a wonderful man and the best priest I'd ever met and for the church to have such ridiculous rules was the last straw.
drankin said:That's strictly a Catholic doctrine and not a biblical decree. This is one of the reason Martin Luther broke away from the Catholic church of the time.
drankin said:Yep, Luther had a racist side. I haven't studied that side of him yet.
binzing said:This just in! The church has been backwards for as long as it has been "in business". Galileo and Copernicus would tell you that!
Pelt said:Well hot diggity. A racist in the 16th century? Who would've thunk it?
Copernicus had been dead for seventy-three years before On the Revolutions made it into the Index, and Galileo's problems could be chalked up to an academic bureaucracy that looks unsurprisingly like university admin and faculty today.
Moridin said:It is important to remember that this originated directly from religious doctrine and almost a millennium of prior Jewish persecution.
Where is anyone threatened with torture or house arrest?
Given, the Galileo affair was not as bad as it is sometimes made to look, but it was a clear sign of religious institution suppressing and overtaking open scientific inquiry based on religious dogma.
After all, the bible teaches that the Earth is flat and still under a solid firmament of stars and the like.
The Church did not vindicate him until 400 years later.
Let's not forget the treatment of Kepler and Newton with them being non-trinitarians / arians and not mentioning god in Principia (Newton's Hypothesis non fingo).
It's also important to recall the far more primitive context of the 16th century.
A better way to put it is that one interpretation of Scripture confirms this old natural philosophy. It was discarded long ago by serious institutions, Catholic or otherwise, and at roughly the same time. The dispute is over the Church's delay in issuing an apology and correction over its error in handling the Galileo affair, and that is an argument over process rather than knowledge.
That's like complaining about a newspaper that doesn't issue a correction over an incorrect story despite it treating the facts in a more enlightened fashion in future reporting. Few if any institutions, academic or otherwise, feel obligated to issue clear mea culpa over process simply because of an occasional wrong result.
And for good reason; even today we understand the necessity of having some bureaucracy to weed out good scholarship from bad; exacting retribution against those who abuse their credentials in order to deter kookery and fraud.
We can tie this into the Galileo affair, which unsurprisingly occurred in the same segment of history. The Church has felt no need to apologize for a lack of enlightened procedure in an era where enlightenment was generally lacking.
Moridin said:Which was mainly the result of...?
You seem to be misunderstanding me - the scriptural authority was used against Galileo at the time of his life. This part was not about the Church's delay.
The place of the Earth in the Universe and the suppression of science is hardly comparable for some incorrect story in a paper.
Unfortunately, that process is done with knowledge backing the stance; not simply the authority of a religious institution or ex cathedra.
I fail to see how that is an excuse for the behavior at the time. Notice that the Galileo "excuse" was not just an information "whoops, sorry" statement. According to Catholic Doctrine Galileo spent those 400 years in purgatory.