Question about Stereo Sound while listening to a Song by the Beatles

[Newton Lopes]

TL;DR Summary

Song The Beatles

Eu estava ouvindo The Beatles, a música "Yellow Submarine". Percebi que os instrumentos e os vocais saíam de fones de ouvido diferentes, os instrumentos do lado esquerdo e os vocais do lado direito. Gostaria de saber: Como isso acontece? E como é feita essa separação entre vozes e instrumentos?
Eu uso o fone de ouvido Hi-Turbo.

[Moderator's note: please use English as lingua franca.]

I was listening to The Beatles, the song "Yellow Submarine". I noticed that the instruments and the vocals were coming out of different headphones, the instruments on the left side and the vocals on the right side. I would like to know: How does this happen? And how is this separation between voices and instruments made?
I use the Hi-Turbo headset.

 

[berkeman]

Summary: Song The Beatles

I noticed that the instruments and the vocals were coming out of different headphones, the instruments on the left side and the vocals on the right side. I would like to know: How does this happen?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereophonic_sound

 

[brainpushups]

Summary: Song The Beatles

And how is this separation between voices and instruments made?

Instruments and vocals are recorded to different tracks that can be panned left or right. Sometimes the pan is subtle and other times it can be panned completely to one side, or even changed to give a sort of 'dizzying' effect.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Moderator's note: please use English as lingua franca

I saw what you did there.

 

[George Jones]

I was listening to The Beatles, the song "Yellow Submarine". I noticed that the instruments and the vocals were coming out of different headphones, the instruments on the left side and the vocals on the right side. I would like to know: How does this happen? And how is this separation between voices and instruments made?

This is the way most of the Beatles recordings were made. See, e.g.,

 

[Baluncore]

I would like to know: How does this happen? And how is this separation between voices and instruments made?

The track was not a live concert recording. The original recording was done in a studio using multiple track recording. The instruments were recorded first, then the vocals were recorded later while the vocalists listened to the instrumental track in their headphones. The vocal and the instrument tracks were then combined by being placed separately on different sides of the "synthetic" stereo final track.

 

[pinball1970]

Summary: Song The Beatles

Eu estava ouvindo The Beatles, a música "Yellow Submarine". Percebi que os instrumentos e os vocais saíam de fones de ouvido diferentes, os instrumentos do lado esquerdo e os vocais do lado direito. Gostaria de saber: Como isso acontece? E como é feita essa separação entre vozes e instrumentos?
Eu uso o fone de ouvido Hi-Turbo.

[Moderator's note: please use English as lingua franca.]

I was listening to The Beatles, the song "Yellow Submarine". I noticed that the instruments and the vocals were coming out of different headphones, the instruments on the left side and the vocals on the right side. I would like to know: How does this happen? And how is this separation between voices and instruments made?
I use the Hi-Turbo headset.

Some info on recording this from George Harrison 4.20-7.51

 

[sophiecentaur]

The vocal and the instrument tracks were then combined by being placed separately on different sides of the "synthetic" stereo final track.

Please explain what you mean by that. I don't think you can mean L and R channels. Do you mean Mono (L+R) and Stereo (L-R), with the singers, essentially in the centre of the sound stage? I seem to remember that 'karaoke ' style versions were produced by reducing the R+L levels and leaving a higher level difference signal.

I don't know the details of the history of producing stereo recordings but I do know that the BBC used a single pair of crossed cardioid mikes for orchestral concerts for a long time; the balance was arranged by seating the players and skilled conducting. (And binaural stereo, of course) Multi-track recordings were pretty limited in the early days.

 

[Baluncore]

Please explain what you mean by that. I don't think you can mean L and R channels.

I meant what I wrote. You seem to want to rotate it 45°.
They were NOT concert recordings, they were multi-track, recorded at different times on different tracks.

I remember early stereo tracks that clearly had vocals on one side and instruments on the other. It was only fifty-something years ago.

AM radio at the time broadcast mono = L+R.

 

[sophiecentaur]

I remember early stereo tracks that clearly had vocals on one side and instruments on the other.

Not Beatles though? I seriously don't remember ever listening to stereo material with a whole album with vocals just on the right channel. But perhaps I only had mono gear at that time.

AM radio at the time broadcast mono = L+R.

BBC broadcast in stereo on VHF FM started in 1962. Naturally I was referring to that. I have a feeling that the AM programme feed was from a single mike.

 

[tech99]

The first stereo system was invented by Alan Blumlein of EMI and used a single microphone with crossed patterns I believe. I think separate microphones, and later on the mixing of several channels, was used later. Blumlein's intention was to replicate the sound fields being heard by each ear, as in the studio. Today it is just synthetic, especially as electronic generated sounds are used. Blumlein used two audio channels and invented a way of putting the two channels to a record. This is one of his laboratory test recordings:
He also made a wonderful stereo recording of Nymphs and Shepherds, by the Manchester Children's Choir in 1929 on 78 rpm disc, available on Youtube

 

[Baluncore]

BBC broadcast in stereo on VHF FM started in 1962. Naturally I was referring to that. I have a feeling that the AM programme feed was from a single mike.

I don't think BBC practice was relevant to the rest of the world, as the BBC ran a restrictive monopoly, until that was broken by Radio Caroline.

In Australia, almost every town had a commercial AM broadcast station. Stereo vinyl recordings of pop music were played and broadcast as mono AM, so there was no microphone involved, just the stylus going up and down. If you wanted stereo, you had to buy the vinyl recording.

When the US record labels demanded a royalty per track played, the AM stations switched to playing Australian artists on Australian labels. US labels sales immediately fell, Australian labels prospered. Within a couple of weeks, the US labels settled their demands, but the Australian bands and labels had gained a better foothold.

In Australia, FM stereo broadcasting, and colour TV (PAL), finally appeared in 1975.

 

[sophiecentaur]

I don't think BBC practice was relevant to the rest of the world,

That's fighting' talk. ITY, CCIR and EBU and others would not agree with you. A BBC friend of mine was Chair of MPEG for many years and that is not a parochial organisation.
As for "restrictive monopoly", that related entirely to the programme side. ITV started in 1955 and the two organisations ran very harmoniously on the Engineering side, sharing transmitter sites and programme links.

The use of a single crossed mike had several advantages, not least of which was that it took some years before sound recording Engineers learned how to produce' natural' sounding mixes of multiple channels for orchestral music. A stereo pair of signals couldn't be messed about with by over enthusiastic sound mixers. Obvs. popular music recording was a different matter but the number of channels available was severely limited on early tape machines.

Stereo vinyl recordings of pop music were played and broadcast as mono AM, so there was no microphone involved, just the stylus going up and down.

Point of order. Vertical recording of mono was tried, initially but it has less dynamic range and the peaks can be damaged by the needle. Lateral recording (side to side) has been used since the very early days. Many records were issued with a Mono option, in the early days because of slight incompatibility of mono cartridges. The A+B signal is the more critical one so the common mode of both cutting tools takes them side to side.

 

[pinball1970]

The first stereo system was invented by Alan Blumlein of EMI and used a single microphone with crossed patterns I believe. I think separate microphones, and later on the mixing of several channels, was used later. Blumlein's intention was to replicate the sound fields being heard by each ear, as in the studio. Today it is just synthetic, especially as electronic generated sounds are used. Blumlein used two audio channels and invented a way of putting the two channels to a record. This is one of his laboratory test recordings:
He also made a wonderful stereo recording of Nymphs and Shepherds, by the Manchester Children's Choir in 1929 on 78 rpm disc, available on Youtube

That's incredible. I had no idea about the Manchester thing. Too early for mum but I will ask if she knew of anyone being there. The sound is amazing for 1928. It looks like it could be Manchester cathedral in the image. I will check.

 

[pinball1970]

I meant what I wrote. You seem to want to rotate it 45°.
They were NOT concert recordings, they were multi-track, recorded at different times on different tracks.

I remember early stereo tracks that clearly had vocals on one side and instruments on the other. It was only fifty-something years ago.

AM radio at the time broadcast mono = L+R.

4 track and 8 track at the end. Not sure how they did that though. The vid states that Sgt Pepper was 4 track. So that means Magical Mystery Tour was just 4 track? Certainly Revolver.
According to George it was.

 

[Hornbein]

Pop music is usually recorded with one microphone per instrument. In order to get a stereo effect the sound may be louder in one speaker than the other. It is done this way because it will play through a mono system without degradation.

The other way is to use two microphones, one for each track. When played through a mono system there are problems with the two signals partially cancelling one another out and getting a thin sound.

You would think that recording through two microphones then playing back through headphones would have a very realistic effect. But this doesn't work very well. You don't get the reflections off of the listener's body, which are important. You can put the microphones next to a real person's ears and get the reflections that way, but the listener's body is different so I'm told that doesn't work.

Hearing birdsong in the forest I can tell immediately where the bird is. This involves some complex processing of the reflected sound that happens naturally. I don't think I'm special in this regard. I've also notice that wearing a big floppy hat dampens sound, even though the hat is not near the direct path from the sound source to my ear.

In the Beatles' day headphone use was fringe. Often there would be a "hard pan" with an instrument coming out of only one speaker of a stereo system. That's an advantage through speakers but seems unnatural with headphones, so this practice has fallen out of favor.

I think it would be possible to come up with a system that gives more realism, like using fifty tracks through fifty tiny speakers or something like that, but there is no demand and it would be more expensive so it won't happen.

 

[sophiecentaur]

Hearing birdsong in the forest I can tell immediately where the bird is.

An enjoyable post.
The way recorded sound loses something is similar to the way colour reproduction often fails. Engineers do their best but, in the end, you're dealing with a very limited channel and the experience is a 'one size fits all'. The brain is processing all the time and factors in as much of the local conditions as it needs (your floppy hat included). Since I started wearing hearing aids my stereo image accuracy is all to hell. That's a devil when I'm looking around for a bird whose song tells me it's over there but my wife, correctly, tells me it's in a totally different direction.
Binaural stereo can never be more than a bit of fun for enthusiasts because headphones make for a very insular experience.
Pop music is often a'fabricated experience' so multichannel recording doesn't clash with 'natural experience'; it's often the very artificiality that makes it memorable and interesting. I remember when 'live' bands struggled to sound like the records they were trying to imitate / cover. That's largely been sorted out now.

 

[sophiecentaur]

Not Beatles though? I seriously don't remember ever listening to stereo material with a whole album with vocals just on the right channel.

It appears that we could all be right about this. A post on Quora suggests that the original tapes were sent to USA for printing 'for the American Market'. So it may be that I listened to the original British mixes and the PF members who remember voices on one side listened to US records.

There's a lot to read about stereo in the sixties and, albeit late in the day, I've learned stuff that I never knew about when it was current. I was too mean to buy Melody Maker and, anyway, I found a lot of what I read there was a bit too worthy. But that's fans for you and they would have the same comments about a lot of what we love about PF.

 

[hutchphd]

Since I started wearing hearing aids my stereo image accuracy is all to hell.

I am beginning to need hearing aids. I presume (at age 70) and believe that I have lost the upper registers. Since I no longer frequent crowded bars rooms, the deficit I notice most is my inability to localize environmental sound.
My question for @sophiecentaur is whether the hearing aids actively further diminish this capability.
Suppose the my hearing loss has a "knee" at 1kHz. This corresponds to a wavelength of one foot which is roughly the distance between my ears. Rayleigh's criterion says my angular resolution will be one radian which seems to match pretty well with experience.
My question (for @sophiecentaur or anyone) is whether the hearing aids actively further diminish this capability. Do they make an attempt to preserve any time delay (i.e. make the amplifier phase-linear?)

 

[sophiecentaur]

I am beginning to need hearing aids. I presume (at age 70) and believe that I have lost the upper registers. Since I no longer frequent crowded bars rooms, the deficit I notice most is my inability to localize environmental sound.
My question for @sophiecentaur is whether the hearing aids actively further diminish this capability.
Suppose the my hearing loss has a "knee" at 1kHz. This corresponds to a wavelength of one foot which is roughly the distance between my ears. Rayleigh's criterion says my angular resolution will be one radian which seems to match pretty well with experience.
My question (for @sophiecentaur or anyone) is whether the hearing aids actively further diminish this capability. Do they make an attempt to preserve any time delay (i.e. make the amplifier phase-linear?)

One of the reasons for trying ‘deaf aids’ was to deal with pub mush. They really did work for me. I failed to come up with a proper reason and put it down to some brain process that I could carry out but not analyse.

The audiologist said it’s best to use them early, to keep the ability that you have when young. For me, the experience was only positive with no apparent loss of anything than stereo. A small price to pay.

Re. Rayleigh criterion; it doesn’t always apply. You can DF with a tiny array of two dipoles, a small fraction of lambda apart. Maybe hearing involves nulling processes of that kind. It’s not the same as resolving two sources. My DF ability seems worse for short chirpy sounds. Make of that what you will.

 

[tech99]

That's incredible. I had no idea about the Manchester thing. Too early for mum but I will ask if she knew of anyone being there. The sound is amazing for 1928. It looks like it could be Manchester cathedral in the image. I will check.

The recording took place at Manchester Free Trade Hall. Two of the children recalled the experience just a few years ago, on Youtube. I think.

 

[vela]

It appears that we could all be right about this. A post on Quora suggests that the original tapes were sent to USA for printing 'for the American Market'. So it may be that I listened to the original British mixes and the PF members who remember voices on one side listened to US records.

Most likely, you either listened to the mono mixes or just didn't notice. For example, the stereo recording of "In My Life" from the Rubber Soul CD has the vocals primarily on the right channel and instruments on the left. Stereo was a new curiosity early in the Beatles career. They were still learning how to best use the technology, which is why the mixes seem kind of strange in light of how recordings are mixed these days.

Note that with the release of their music on CD, the Beatles standardized on the UK albums. As you alluded to, in the 60s, Capitol Records took their original recordings and made new albums for the American market, including making some bastardized stereo mixes of songs intended to be in mono by the Beatles.

 

[sophiecentaur]

As you alluded to, in the 60s, Capitol Records took their original recordings and made new albums for the American market, including making some bastardized stereo mixes of songs intended to be in mono by the Beatles.

Now you mention it, I remember that my brother in law, who was an engineer on big ships, used to bring us home LPs which were unashamed knock-offs. They were printed on plastics of many different colours - orange, green and I imagine they were cloned from those Capitol releases. That's what I would have done most of my listening to in the sixties.