Selective learning via backwards traversal

  • Thread starter Jarvis323
  • Start date
In summary: MIP* and RE are but two.In summary, someone who wants to learn about a topic with prerequisite knowledge might pursue two routes: studying the prerequisite knowledge broadly or selectively learning the relevant content while skipping the rest. This discovery has profound consequences for theoretical computer science and physics, and people will need to learn the broad foundational subjects and navigate a complex graph of knowledge to fully understand it.
  • #1
Jarvis323
1,243
986
If a person wants to learn about a topic that has prerequisite knowledge, there are two ways they could proceed. (1) They could identify the subjects of the prerequisite knowledge and study those subjects broadly, working their way up through a traditional educational path (e.g. work through a series of courses or textbooks). (2) They could try to narrowly learn only the prerequisite knowledge while skipping the content of those subjects which are not relevant.

I have been thinking about the second way, which I am calling selective learning through backwards traversal.

The reason I think this is important is that the body of human knowledge is increasing further and further beyond people's ability to digest, pursuits of new knowledge are becoming more and more specialized/niche and reliant on new/or diverse methods and previous results, and in general, the potential prerequisite knowledge for understanding a given piece of knowledge is increasing. More and more, people will find themselves in the position where they have to backtrack in order to understand something.

Even if one is working in their own field (and they've taken the general education requirements), they might still find themselves in such a situation. For example, a mathematician or a physicist may hear about a breakthrough in theoretical computer science, such as the discovery that MIP* = RE.

MIP* = RE is not a typo. It is a groundbreaking discovery and the catchy title of a recent paper in the field of quantum complexity theory. Complexity theory is a zoo of "complexity classes"—collections of computational problems—of which MIP* and RE are but two.

The 165-page paper shows that these two classes are the same. That may seem like an insignificant detail in an abstract theory without any real-world application. But physicists and mathematicians are flocking to visit the zoo, even though they probably don't understand it all. Because it turns out the discovery has astonishing consequences for their own disciplines.

https://phys.org/news/2020-08-major-quantum-breakthrough-physics-maths.html

But MIP* = RE is not something that even if a bachelors (or maybe graduate degree) in computer science would provide. In fact, you could take a full series of theory courses in computational complexity (undergraduate and graduate level), and still come up short. And those theory courses will include lots of subtopics that aren't directly relevant. So, I think, someone flocking to the complexity zoo will either have to invest several years learning the broad foundational subjects, or they'll have to attempt backwards propagation. Theoretical computer scientists will also probably need to learn the physics before they can understand it. Actually, it's niche enough and advanced enough research level work, so I think most computer scientists will even need to backtrack to understand even the complexity theory parts.

In my experience, often when I find I need to backtrack, I find myself in a very arduous situation, trying to navigate a complex graph of knowledge, fairly blindly, as if I were trying to solve a complex puzzle with lots of small clues. Alternatively, I could work my way up from the bottom, but that could take years.

The solution I think, is that people should eventually have sophisticated systems which guide you, e.g. by deducing a feasible path to understanding a given piece of knowledge. I imagine this must be an active area of research. But it would also require some infrastructure. For example, people would need to probably manually go through our body of knowledge, and narrowly identify all of the dependencies. Is this something people are already working on? Is it even possible? It seems like something that could be open sourced, like Wikipedia. It's also possible that research journals in the future could require the authors to carefully map out the prerequisites to understanding their paper using this kind of sophisticated guidance system.
 
Last edited:
Science news on Phys.org
  • #2
I don't visit pages that require permission for all and sundry cookies. I'm sure you understand

1611182205174.png
 
  • #3
Jarvis323 said:
For example, people would need to probably manually go through our body of knowledge, and narrowly identify all of the dependencies.
There are different ways to get to a theorem. Sometimes the most simple/elementary route is not intuitive.
 
  • #4
@Keith_McClary is right. There is a reason why - prerequisites to full understanding can come from all kinds of unexpected places. Plus it helps a lot for getting a jumpstart to understanding if you have a good overview of a range of subjects.

It sounds to me more like an aversion tactic rather than a learning process. My wife got a BA when she was about age 50. From U of Oregon. She was appalled by the pointless attitude of young undergrads about attendance, taking exams, etc. How much could they avoid doing and still pass the class was the concept.
How much can I get away with? IMO - this explains a lot about the level of STEM understanding in the US. It requires focus.
 
  • #6
Keith_McClary said:
There are different ways to get to a theorem. Sometimes the most simple/elementary route is not intuitive.
I agree. Like I said, it sometimes feels to me like solving a complex puzzle. It can be a major time waster when you don't have any guidence. Getting help from experts, e.g. by 'asking directions' could help a lot, but the people who know the way are not always accessible to everyone.
 
Last edited:
  • #7
jim mcnamara said:
@Keith_McClary is right. There is a reason why - prerequisites to full understanding can come from all kinds of unexpected places. Plus it helps a lot for getting a jumpstart to understanding if you have a good overview of a range of subjects.

The problem is that it is not practical for someone to be a generalist that covers every possible prerequisite.

jim mcnamara said:
It sounds to me more like an aversion tactic rather than a learning process. My wife got a BA when she was about age 50. From U of Oregon. She was appalled by the pointless attitude of young undergrads about attendance, taking exams, etc. How much could they avoid doing and still pass the class was the concept.
How much can I get away with? IMO - this explains a lot about the level of STEM understanding in the US. It requires focus.

You can't learn everything. At some point, if you want to understand some piece of knowledge, you will have to learn a series of new things that weren't covered in whatever education you've gotten. An aversion tactic would be to opt out in my opinion. Aimlessly working through years worth of textbooks is noble, but not everyone has that kind of time. For example, if you're a PhD student studying quantum physics, and you want to learn about MIP* = RE and its implications for your research, and you tried going about that from the bottom up, through a broad series of courses with all of their redundancy, then you would most likely be sidetracked from your PhD work for several years. You could argue that PhD students in physics should ignore MIP* = RE, it's not for them to understand. But that is a sort of cynical view in my opinion.

Generally, there is this wide body of human knowledge. And even the most educated can only dream to cover a tiny amount of it. I like to imagine a future where people can explore the body of human knowledge with more freedom, by having some kind of map that you can follow to get you from here to there. It might be way too ambitious at this time.
 
  • #8
Jarvis323 said:
The problem is that it is not practical for someone to be a generalist that covers every possible prerequisite.
You can't learn everything. At some point, if you want to understand some piece of knowledge, you will have to learn a series of new things that weren't covered in whatever education you've gotten. An aversion tactic would be to opt out in my opinion. Aimlessly working through years worth of textbooks is noble, but not everyone has that kind of time. For example, if you're a PhD student studying quantum physics, and you want to learn about MIP* = RE and its implications for your research, and you tried going about that from the bottom up, through a broad series of courses with all of their redundancy, then you would most likely be sidetracked from your PhD work for several years. You could argue that PhD students in physics should ignore MIP* = RE, it's not for them to understand. But that is a sort of cynical view in my opinion.

Generally, there is this wide body of human knowledge. And even the most educated can only dream to cover a tiny amount of it. I like to imagine a future where people can explore the body of human knowledge with more freedom, by having some kind of map that you can follow to get you from here to there. It might be way too ambitious at this time.
Paper and pen/pencil and get to working...
 
  • #9
Interesting example here.

Partially in reply to
jim mcnamara said:
@Keith_McClaryMy wife got a BA when she was about age 50. From U of Oregon. She was appalled by the pointless attitude of young undergrads about attendance, taking exams, etc. How much could they avoid doing and still pass the class was the concept.
How much can I get away with? IMO - this explains a lot about the level of STEM understanding in the US. It requires focus.
I was helping my daughter with peparations for an exam and flabbergasted that she hadn't attended the lectures because of a scheduling problem; hadn't done any exercises in tutoring. The only thing she had was a bunch of old exams. After a bit of arguing we compromised on going through them and gather the required material in a backward traversal manner. It worked. For her it wasn't a mainstream subject, but a hurdle she had to take. Lecturers and professors consider their subject the center of the universe and don't mind asking their students to spend much more time than they actually have on it.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes Jarvis323 and pbuk
  • #10
Jarvis323 said:
The problem is that it is not practical for someone to be a generalist that covers every possible prerequisite.
You can't learn everything. At some point, if you want to understand some piece of knowledge, you will have to learn a series of new things that weren't covered in whatever education you've gotten. An aversion tactic would be to opt out in my opinion. Aimlessly working through years worth of textbooks is noble, but not everyone has that kind of time. For example, if you're a PhD student studying quantum physics, and you want to learn about MIP* = RE and its implications for your research, and you tried going about that from the bottom up, through a broad series of courses with all of their redundancy, then you would most likely be sidetracked from your PhD work for several years. You could argue that PhD students in physics should ignore MIP* = RE, it's not for them to understand. But that is a sort of cynical view in my opinion.

Generally, there is this wide body of human knowledge. And even the most educated can only dream to cover a tiny amount of it. I like to imagine a future where people can explore the body of human knowledge with more freedom, by having some kind of map that you can follow to get you from here to there. It might be way too ambitious at this time.
Recall that at one point, one studied Trigonometry at the university and not in high school... Topics become integrated into the standard curriculum when people have beat the subject to death. MIP*=RE is not there yet, and it is unrealistic for the average PHD student to make contributions or fully understand MIP*=Re. Mathematics/Science is not pie in the sky... Remember that Post Doc exist for a reason, and learning does not stop after the university, unless you choose to do so...
 
  • Like
Likes Jarvis323

What is selective learning?

Selective learning is the process of actively choosing and prioritizing which information or skills to acquire and retain. It involves consciously filtering out unnecessary or irrelevant information and focusing only on what is deemed important or useful.

What is backwards traversal in selective learning?

Backwards traversal is a technique used in selective learning where one starts with the end goal or desired outcome and works backwards to determine the steps needed to achieve it. This approach allows for a more focused and efficient learning process by identifying the most crucial information or skills to acquire first.

What are the benefits of selective learning via backwards traversal?

Selective learning via backwards traversal can help improve learning efficiency and retention by prioritizing and focusing on the most important information. It can also save time and effort by avoiding unnecessary or redundant information and helping to identify the most efficient path towards a desired outcome.

How can selective learning via backwards traversal be applied in different fields?

Selective learning via backwards traversal can be applied in various fields, such as education, research, and problem-solving. For example, in education, it can help students focus on key concepts and skills rather than getting overwhelmed by a large amount of information. In research, it can aid in identifying the most relevant and important data to analyze. In problem-solving, it can help identify the most effective and efficient solution to a problem.

Are there any potential drawbacks to selective learning via backwards traversal?

One potential drawback of selective learning via backwards traversal is that it may limit creativity and critical thinking. By focusing only on the most direct path towards a desired outcome, one may miss out on potential alternative solutions or insights. It is important to balance the use of selective learning with other learning approaches to foster a well-rounded understanding and skillset.

Similar threads

  • STEM Academic Advising
Replies
14
Views
702
Replies
1
Views
70
  • Feedback and Announcements
Replies
18
Views
1K
Replies
2
Views
885
  • Topology and Analysis
Replies
11
Views
259
  • Feedback and Announcements
3
Replies
71
Views
4K
  • STEM Academic Advising
Replies
22
Views
3K
  • New Member Introductions
Replies
2
Views
149
  • STEM Academic Advising
Replies
9
Views
1K
  • STEM Career Guidance
Replies
4
Views
2K
Back
Top