Solar photovoltaics: - What happens to the lost energy?

[pranj5]

I have a very simple question about solar photovoltaic systems. We all know that they have limited efficiency. Suppose there is a module that is 10% efficient i.e. it can convert 10% of sunlight falling onto it into electricity. I just want to know what will happen to the rest 90%? I mean do those just reflect back like a mirror or some change may occur in their composition?

 

[gleem]

A small amount is reflected but the major portion is degraded into heat.

 

[pranj5]

As far as I can remember that I have seen photographs of solar cells that shines almost like a mirror. If what you are saying is true, that means that maximum amount of sunlight will be absorbed by the materials of the solar cell. A small portion is converted into electricity and the rest will be radiated as heat. In that case, concentrated solar photovoltaic technology would be simply impossible due to generation of excessive heat.
As per thermodynamics, maximum amount of sunlight will be converted into heat. But does that mean that the solar cell itself converts the unused sunlight into heat and radiates it?

 

[russ_watters]

As far as I can remember that I have seen photographs of solar cells that shines almost like a mirror.

Look again; they are dark blue (probably from a small amount of sky reflection) or black.

But does that mean that the solar cell itself converts the unused sunlight into heat and radiates it?

I think I know what you are trying to ask, so I'll say no even though the answer is yes...

 

[pranj5]

Kindly give a look at the http://www.mainlinemedianews.com/mainlinesuburbanlife/news/tempers-flare-over-solar-panel/article_16423fe6-b718-5684-b138-8245e902ce4c.html.

I think I know what you are trying to ask, so I'll say no even though the answer is yes...

The answer is confusing.

 

[OmCheeto]

Kindly give a look at the http://www.mainlinemedianews.com/mainlinesuburbanlife/news/tempers-flare-over-solar-panel/article_16423fe6-b718-5684-b138-8245e902ce4c.html.
...

That news is 7 years old.

Tempers flare over solar panel
By Anne Pickering Aug 18, 2010​

You should look at new news.

ps. Have you ever seen my solar panels? They are a beautiful dark blue.:

And hardly any glare.

 

[pranj5]

Kindly read this https://www.solarsmartllc.com/?p=2942. For this reason, solar panels now are looking like this. If the amount of reflection is small, why anti-glare glasses are needed. The graph below clearly shows that with increasing angle of incidence, the amount of reflection also increases and at 90 degree, the reflection coefficient is more than 70%.

That news is 7 years old.

That simply means that solar panels reflect sufficiently at that time and special measures are necessary to prevent them.

 

[OmCheeto]

Kindly read this https://www.solarsmartllc.com/?p=2942. For this reason, solar panels now are looking like this. If the amount of reflection is small, why anti-glare glasses are needed. The graph below clearly shows that with increasing angle of incidence, the amount of reflection also increases and at 90 degree, the reflection coefficient is more than 70%.

That simply means that solar panels reflect sufficiently at that time and special measures are necessary to prevent them.

You make no sense to me.

GOOD BYE!

 

[OCR]

Kindly give a look at the news.

Lol...

The company also maintains that it will likely only be a problem in the summer months.

That's nice ...[COLOR=#black].[/COLOR]

 

[russ_watters]

Kindly give a look at the http://www.mainlinemedianews.com/mainlinesuburbanlife/news/tempers-flare-over-solar-panel/article_16423fe6-b718-5684-b138-8245e902ce4c.html.

Haven't you seen glare off of a window/windshield/lake before? The covering of the panel can be 95% clear, but if it reflects 5% of the light straight into your eyes, it will be blindingly bright.

The answer is confusing.

Solar panels are black, so they absorb light, which makes them get hot. It's that simple. I suspect you were getting at some sort of process related to the generation of electricity that also generates heat, but that's a no.

 

[pranj5]

In the article, it has been clearly shown how reflection increases with increase in angle of incidence. Solar panels fitted with solar tracking always face the Sun i.e. the angle of incidence for them is always nearly 90°. Do you think that reflection parameters are same for them too?

 

[Vanadium 50]

Are you hear for an answer to a question or to push an agenda?

 

[russ_watters]

Kindly read this https://www.solarsmartllc.com/?p=2942. For this reason, solar panels now are looking like this. If the amount of reflection is small, why anti-glare glasses are needed. The graph below clearly shows that with increasing angle of incidence, the amount of reflection also increases and at 90 degree, the reflection coefficient is more than 70%.

Read it again: it says degrees from normal incidence. That's low angles, not high angles. I ask again: haven't you ever seen glare off anything?

 

[pranj5]

Read it again: it says degrees from normal incidence. That's low angles, not high angles. I ask again: haven't you ever seen glare off anything

Can't understand what you want to mean by "normal incidence". I just want to know what will happen for solar panels those are fitted on solar tracking i.e. where sunlight falls on the panel at very close to the highest degree.

Are you hear for an answer to a question or to push an agenda?

What I want is nothing but a clear answer.

 

[russ_watters]

Can't understand what you want to mean by "normal incidence".

https://www.google.com/search?q=nor...0j69i57j0l4.2829j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

I just want to know what will happen for solar panels those are fitted on solar tracking i.e. where sunlight falls on the panel at very close to the highest degree.

What I want is nothing but a clear answer.

Clear questions help lead to clear answers -- but I think by now you have gotten clear enough answers. It is up to you to absorb them. If you're still not getting how glare works, I have homework for you: next time it is night where you are, get a window, a directional flashlight(spot light) and a flash camera. Create and observe glare.

 

[davenn]

What I want is nothing but a clear answer.

you have been given clear answers
you just refuse to accept them

 

[davenn]

time for this thread to close me thinks

 

[Merlin3189]

That news is 7 years old.

Tempers flare over solar panel
By Anne Pickering Aug 18, 2010​

You should look at new news.

ps. Have you ever seen my solar panels? They are a beautiful dark blue.:

View attachment 206985

And hardly any glare.

Does that not show simply that the reflection is more specular than diffuse? If that were a mirror standing in the sunshine opposite a dark surface, presumably it would look even darker, with less glare in the top right and from the solder tracks.

From my reading of the interesting news article it is the specular reflection that is the problem. Even if it is comparable with reflection from windows, as Russ suggests, that doesn't make it any less of a problem. Large arrays of windows are also a problem in some places and still make news here.

I don't understand why everyone is being so rude towards this poster. His questions seem reasonable and interesting to me and I see no indication of "pushing an agenda" (perhaps you know him and are anticipating something I'm unaware of?) If I think a conversation is becoming fruitless (as many do - even when driven by vip members) .I just leave. I don't feel the need to shout at people or make sarcastic comments.

 

[russ_watters]

Does that not show simply that the reflection is more specular than diffuse?

Yes, that's exactly right. There is a trade-off with the surface finish: glossy is more (specular) reflective while simultaneously being clearer than flat/matte finish:
https://www.howtogeek.com/181727/gl...hich-should-you-choose-when-buying-a-display/

 

[Vanadium 50]

If the complaint is glare, I might suggest that one should look at the nice polished aluminum frame before the cells themselves.

 

[pranj5]

The question isn't about glare. The question is whether most of the unused light is reflected back or being absorbed first and then radiated as heat as most suggested here. But, I just suddenly remember that solar cells were first used in space and futurists are thinking of using solar cells as source of electricity in future Moon colonies. Both space and Moon don't have any atmosphere and that means no convection is available. I am wondering how solar cells can protect themselves from overheating in such situation if they first absorb the light and radiate it.
Russ considers this process like a thermodynamic engine. But I have doubt on that point whether we can consider power generation by solar cell similar to thermodynamic engine or not.

 

[gleem]

In space radiation is more efficient in removing heat because their is no insulating layer of air around the panel to trap the heat. Air is a problem for the use of solar panels on the Earth's surface..

 

[Rive]

I am wondering how solar cells can protect themselves from overheating in such situation if they first absorb the light and radiate it.

They can't. In direct sunlight the surface temperature on the Moon is above 100C degree. Solar cells will get heated to slightly lower temperature since some energy is removed (as electricity) compared to the surface.

According some articles the temperature of solar panels on the ISS can go as high as 150C degree in direct sunlight.

 

[russ_watters]

The question isn't about glare. The question is whether most of the unused light is reflected back or being absorbed first and then radiated as heat as most suggested here. But, I just suddenly remember that solar cells were first used in space and futurists are thinking of using solar cells as source of electricity in future Moon colonies. Both space and Moon don't have any atmosphere and that means no convection is available. I am wondering how solar cells can protect themselves from overheating in such situation if they first absorb the light and radiate it.

If necessary some other method of cooling such as sublimation of water (used for astronauts) or geothermal heat pump could be employed, but most likely they would just accept the lower efficiency of the higher temperature of operation.

Russ considers this process like a thermodynamic engine.

I don't consider the process like a thermodynamic (heat) engine. A thermodynamic (heat) engine is a device that converts thermal energy into mechanical work. They involve neither radiation nor electricity and utilize a working fluid, not a solid state device, to do the energy conversion.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_engine

 

[pranj5]

Kindly just read this article.

 

[jim hardy]

Kindly just read this article.

Currently the optical reflection from solar cell surface is accounted for a significant loss in the photoelectric energy conversion process and thus better solar wafers with nearly zero optical reflection across a broad range of incident light wavelengths and angles will help to considerably improve the performance of solar cell devices and potentially bring down the solar electricity cost. The silicon nanostructures created by this unique processing method on solar wafer surface developed in this project will have superior antireflection and light trapping property. In this project the solar industry compatible nanomanufacturing method for zero-reflection ?Omni Black? solar wafers will be developed and the underlying processing physical mechanism will be better understood and controlled.

What's the question that article answers?

 

[jim hardy]

Ahh a startup got a SBIR grant..
article. https://www.nsf.gov/awardsearch/showAward?AWD_ID=1248974

Sponsor: Effimax Solar INC
60 Hazelwood Dr
Champaign, IL 61820-7460 (217)979-0200

https://gust.com/companies/effimax_solar

Company Summary


The Omni Black texturing technique invented by Effimax Solar increases the light absorption of c-Si solar cells through whole spectrum and all angles, therefore makes them 22% more efficient. Furthermore, it reduces 2% of the production cost of cells by reducing silicon materials consumption. Effimax Solar delivers this solution to solar cell manufacturers in a plug-and-play manner and charges royalties on each cell produced by our technique

 

[russ_watters]

Kindly just read this article.

Ok, I've read it.

 

[pranj5]

"Currently the optical reflection from solar cell surface is accounted for a significant loss in the photoelectric energy conversion process".
Don't need any further clarification.

 

[russ_watters]

"Currently the optical reflection from solar cell surface is accounted for a significant loss in the photoelectric energy conversion process".
Don't need any further clarification.

Ok, that's fine. Me personally I'd want to see actual numbers and proof they've demonstrated their technology before I believe they can do what they claim.

In any case, since you are satisfied with what you have learned, I guess that's a good place to close the thread.