Square of an integral containing a Green's Function

In summary, the conversation discusses the square of a tensor u with components given by the equation $$u_{ij}=\nabla_i\nabla_j\int_{r'}G(r,r')g(r')dr',$$ where G is a Green function and g is a well-behaved function. The question is whether the square of this component is equal to $$\bigg[\nabla_i\nabla_j\int_{r'}G(r,r')g(r')dr'\bigg]\bigg[\nabla_i\nabla_j\int_{r''}G(r,r'')g(r'')dr''\bigg]$$ or $$\nabla_i\nabla_j
  • #1
Celeritas
11
0
TL;DR Summary
Square of an integral containing a Green's Function.
Let's say you have a tensor u with the following components:
$$u_{ij}=\nabla_i\nabla_j\int_{r'}G(r,r')g(r')dr'$$
Where G is a Green function, and g is just a normal well behaved function. My question is what is the square of this component? is it
$${u_{ij}}^2=\bigg[\nabla_i\nabla_j\int_{r'}G(r,r')g(r')dr'\bigg]\bigg[\nabla_i\nabla_j\int_{r''}G(r,r'')g(r'')dr''\bigg]$$
or is it
$${u_{ij}}^2=\bigg[\nabla_i\nabla_j\int_{r'}G(r,r')g(r')dr'\bigg]\bigg[{\nabla_i}'{\nabla_j}'\int_{r''}G(r',r'')g(r'')dr''\bigg]$$

The first one makes much more sense to me, but I'm trying to reproduce results from a paper and it appears that they have used the second one. Any help is appreciated.

EDIT:
I'm sorry but it appears I have written the second one wrong. What I mean is:
$${u_{ij}}^2=\nabla_i\nabla_j\int_{r'}G(r,r')g(r')\bigg[{\nabla_i}'{\nabla_j}'\int_{r''}G(r',r'')g(r'')dr''\bigg]dr'$$
I understand that r and r'' are dummy variables, but my problem is writing G in the second integral as G(r',r'') and not G(r,r''). To me it should be the latter because after integrating I should have something depending on r and not r'. If it depends on r' then the result of the second integral will contribute to the first integral (which is over r').
 
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  • #2
Celeritas said:
I'm sorry but it appears I have written the second one wrong. What I mean is:
$${u_{ij}}^2=\nabla_i\nabla_j\int_{r'}G(r,r')g(r')\bigg[{\nabla_i}'{\nabla_j}'\int_{r''}G(r',r'')g(r'')dr''\bigg]dr'$$
I understand that r and r'' are dummy variables, but my problem is writing G in the second integral as G(r',r'') and not G(r,r''). To me it should be the latter because after integrating I should have something depending on r and not r'. If it depends on r' then the result of the second integral will contribute to the first integral (which is over r').
Yes, I wondered what happened!

There's clearly something missing here. What is ##u_{ij}^2##? Is it really ##(u^2)_{ij}##?
 
  • #3
PeroK said:
Yes, I wondered what happened!

There's clearly something missing here. What is ##u_{ij}^2##? Is it really ##(u^2)_{ij}##?
##{u_{ij}}^2## is the square of the element ##u_{ij}##. Afterwards one sums over i and j.
In physics, this would give (along with some additional unimportant terms) the free energy contribution of pure shear on a material.
 
  • #4
Celeritas said:
##{u_{ij}}^2## is the square of the element ##u_{ij}##. Afterwards one sums over i and j.
In physics, this would give (along with some additional unimportant terms) the free energy contribution of pure shear on a material.
I wonder if it's an identity that depends on the properties of the Green's function?
 
  • #5
PeroK said:
I wonder if it's an identity that depends on the properties of the Green's function?
Maybe, but after integrating over dr'', you essentially lose the second green function and are left with G(r,r')g(r')f(r') where f(r') is the result of the integral over dr''. I don't see how any property of Green's function will do anything about that!
But my main concern was that is my way of looking at this term correct? i.e. is this one correct?
$${u_{ij}}^2=\bigg[\nabla_i\nabla_j\int_{r'}G(r,r')g(r')dr'\bigg]\bigg[\nabla_i\nabla_j\int_{r''}G(r,r'')g(r'')dr''\bigg]$$
I will also try to contact the authors but the paper is 22 years old!
 
  • #6
Celeritas said:
Maybe, but after integrating over dr'', you essentially lose the second green function and are left with G(r,r')g(r')f(r') where f(r') is the result of the integral over dr''. I don't see how any property of Green's function will do anything about that!
But my main concern was that is my way of looking at this term correct? i.e. is this one correct?
$${u_{ij}}^2=\bigg[\nabla_i\nabla_j\int_{r'}G(r,r')g(r')dr'\bigg]\bigg[\nabla_i\nabla_j\int_{r''}G(r,r'')g(r'')dr''\bigg]$$
I will also try to contact the authors but the paper is 22 years old!
That expression is correct by definition. There must be some way to equate it to the other. Unless we are missing something there must be a Green's function property behind this.

I haven't see this before, so I can't help any further. Sorry.
 
  • #7
PeroK said:
That expression is correct by definition. There must be some way to equate it to the other. Unless we are missing something there must be a Green's function property behind this.

I haven't see this before, so I can't help any further. Sorry.
Thank you. You've helped plenty.
 
  • #8
I assume that ##\nabla_i=\frac{\partial}{\partial x_i}##. For the Cartesian coordinate system$$x_1=x\\
x_2=y\\
x_3=z\\
r=\sqrt{x_1^2+x_2^2+x_3^2}\\
r'=\sqrt{x_1^{'2}+x_2^{'2}+x_3^{'2}}$$I would think that, for example$$
u_{xz}=\int_{r'}\frac{\partial^2}{\partial x \partial z}G(r,r')g(r')dr'$$ and that,$$u_{xz}^2=[\int_{r'}\frac{\partial^2}{\partial x \partial z}G(r,r')g(r')dr'][\int_{r'}\frac{\partial^2}{\partial x \partial z}G(r,r')g(r')dr']$$
 
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1. What is the Green's Function in an integral equation?

The Green's Function is a mathematical tool used in integral equations to solve for unknown functions. It represents the response of a linear system to a delta function input.

2. How is the Green's Function related to the inverse of the operator in the integral equation?

The Green's Function is the inverse of the operator in the integral equation. This means that when the Green's Function is convolved with the input function, it results in the output function.

3. Can the Green's Function be used for non-linear systems?

No, the Green's Function is only applicable for linear systems. For non-linear systems, other methods must be used to solve the integral equation.

4. What is the significance of the square of an integral containing a Green's Function?

The square of an integral containing a Green's Function is a common form of integral equations used in many areas of science and engineering. It allows for the solution of a wide range of problems, including those involving boundary value problems and partial differential equations.

5. How is the Green's Function used in practical applications?

The Green's Function is used in many practical applications, such as solving problems in electromagnetics, fluid dynamics, and heat transfer. It is also used in image processing, signal processing, and control systems.

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