- #1
query_ious
- 23
- 0
Hi,
I've been wondering recently what types of systems/processes can give rise to independence. E.g. 'a' and 'b' are independent only given that the system constraints exist.
I'm coming from biology so by independence I don't necessarily mean the strict mathematical version but something like 'So long as nothing catastrophic happens I can predict with OK accuracy what will happen in 'a' regardless of what happens in 'b'
A few thought bins I'm familiar with include -
1. Separation of location -
The cell contains multiple intracellular compartments, things that happen in one are, to an extent, independent of things that happen in another (ER/Golgi vs. mitochondria for instance).
You can also think of organs in the body if you like, your stomach and GI tract can process food whether or not your upper arms are functional.
2. Separation of timescale:
For example altering proteins with chemical modifications occurs extremely quickly while creating more proteins takes a long time (relatively speaking). So the chemical modifications reach equilibrium before the overall protein concentration changes and the protein concentration never actually 'sees' the chemical modification taking place - in some sense the two are independent.
3. Different languages -
E.g if two receptor-ligand complexes are physically and temporally adjacent but neither of them has any reactivity towards the other they are 'independent'.
4. Network stuff -
I'm a bit hazier here but my intuition is that if you have a system 'A' which integrates over many discrete entities to create a binary signal and feed it into system 'B' you have a partial decoupling between the input to 'A' and the input to 'B' (analogy is the neuronal synapse - many chemical packets slightly altering membrane potential until you pass a threshold and create a binary action potential). This is a different sense of 'independence' - it is more like 'if you give me some integrated value I can make predictions without knowing exactly how the integrated value came about'
Does this resonate with anything in physics/mathematics? E.g. are there any specific fields/keywords/threads/papers I could follow up which talk about this type of issue (and ideally would have an empirical catalogue of 'thought bins')?
Beyond the mechanisms themselves I'd also be interested in information on what happens when you take multiple such systems/processes and link them together... vague intuition is that this might very quickly create some kind of complexity explosion which means that in meta system A->B->C->D you can approximate each one of the arrows and still fail miserably at trying to get from A to D.
Thanks :)
I've been wondering recently what types of systems/processes can give rise to independence. E.g. 'a' and 'b' are independent only given that the system constraints exist.
I'm coming from biology so by independence I don't necessarily mean the strict mathematical version but something like 'So long as nothing catastrophic happens I can predict with OK accuracy what will happen in 'a' regardless of what happens in 'b'
A few thought bins I'm familiar with include -
1. Separation of location -
The cell contains multiple intracellular compartments, things that happen in one are, to an extent, independent of things that happen in another (ER/Golgi vs. mitochondria for instance).
You can also think of organs in the body if you like, your stomach and GI tract can process food whether or not your upper arms are functional.
2. Separation of timescale:
For example altering proteins with chemical modifications occurs extremely quickly while creating more proteins takes a long time (relatively speaking). So the chemical modifications reach equilibrium before the overall protein concentration changes and the protein concentration never actually 'sees' the chemical modification taking place - in some sense the two are independent.
3. Different languages -
E.g if two receptor-ligand complexes are physically and temporally adjacent but neither of them has any reactivity towards the other they are 'independent'.
4. Network stuff -
I'm a bit hazier here but my intuition is that if you have a system 'A' which integrates over many discrete entities to create a binary signal and feed it into system 'B' you have a partial decoupling between the input to 'A' and the input to 'B' (analogy is the neuronal synapse - many chemical packets slightly altering membrane potential until you pass a threshold and create a binary action potential). This is a different sense of 'independence' - it is more like 'if you give me some integrated value I can make predictions without knowing exactly how the integrated value came about'
Does this resonate with anything in physics/mathematics? E.g. are there any specific fields/keywords/threads/papers I could follow up which talk about this type of issue (and ideally would have an empirical catalogue of 'thought bins')?
Beyond the mechanisms themselves I'd also be interested in information on what happens when you take multiple such systems/processes and link them together... vague intuition is that this might very quickly create some kind of complexity explosion which means that in meta system A->B->C->D you can approximate each one of the arrows and still fail miserably at trying to get from A to D.
Thanks :)