What kind of jobs can a physicist do outside of academia and research?

[Grands]

Hi guys.

I want to make a question about what kind of job can a physicist do.
Excluding the academic carrier and the research, which kind of job can a physicist do?

It is true that there are physicist that work at Wall Street?
If yes, what kind of job they do there?
A technical job?
I don't think it's about trading.

Thanks.

 

[symbolipoint]

A "Physicist" or at least a bachelor of science (or higher) graduate of Physics can do ANYTHING that anyone else can, depending on actual courses taken and depending on actual experiences. Physics graduates are smart people. A physics graduate could do the work of a chemist, an engineer, computer scientist, software developer, photographer, archivist, various kinds of technicians.

 

[Nidum]

(1) You don't seem to have taken in what has now been said several times on different threads .

Anyone with a Physics/Applied Maths/Engineering type degree can potentially have a successful career in a huge variety of different fields of work .

(2) When they still did open floor trading at LSE the actual traders had every different type of background you could imagine . Everyone from barely literate East End barrow boys to Eton/Oxbridge educated minor Royals . I think that Wall street was much the same once . Both places now though have become more computer and analysis based so the traders that work there now usually have degrees in subjects with relevant content . Many with degrees in Economics , quite a few with degrees in maths/statistics and the remainder with degrees in all sorts of numerate subjects and certainly including physics .

Edit : Just to be clear : LSE = London Stock Exchange .

 

[Nidum]

In answer to the specific question you asked me in message - yes someone with a Physics degree can become an engineer . Many Physics graduates actually do so .

 

[Nidum]

You might find this interesting to read through :

https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/physicists-and-physics-majors-was-it-worth-it.918776/

 

[jtbell]

yes someone with a Physics degree can become an engineer . Many Physics graduates actually do so .

At the college where I taught for many years, many (probably even the majority) of our physics majors have become engineers, by going on to get a master's degree in some engineering area (usually electrical, mechanical, or civil engineering, IIRC).

One of my fellow physics majors from many years ago went on to get a Ph.D. in engineering and do research in robotics.

 

[Locrian]

A "Physicist" or at least a bachelor of science (or higher) graduate of Physics can do ANYTHING that anyone else can, depending on actual courses taken and depending on actual experiences.

This is not true in most countries. Many jobs require certification, membership in professional societies, or other restrictions that limit who can work in that field. These often come with educational requirements. In the US medical professions, many accounting positions, and much actuarial work are some examples.

 

[Locrian]

It is true that there are physicist that work at Wall Street?

Yes, though this is less a thing than it was a decade ago (the financial crisis and later legislation really changed the environment).

Data Science might be an example of something that's currently "hot" that you may find physicists in.

I'm not suggesting people gravitate towards popular trends just because they're popular.

 

[Grands]

A "Physicist" or at least a bachelor of science (or higher) graduate of Physics can do ANYTHING that anyone else can, depending on actual courses taken and depending on actual experiences. Physics graduates are smart people. A physics graduate could do the work of a chemist, an engineer, computer scientist, software developer, photographer, archivist, various kinds of technicians.

In answer to the specific question you asked me in message - yes someone with a Physics degree can become an engineer . Many Physics graduates actually do so .

I don't agree with this, considering that the law create barriers to physicists.
For example a physicist can't build a house even if he could, because he is not a civil engineer.
A physicist can't create a motor, because the law says that only mechanical can do that.
A physicist can't build a rocket, because the law doesn't allow him to do that.
There are a lots of examples like this.

by going on to get a master's degree in some engineering area (usually electrical, mechanical, or civil engineering, IIRC).

A person that obtained a bachelor's degree in Physics, can obtain a master degree in engineering ?

 

[gmax137]

A person that obtained a bachelor's degree in Physics, can obtain a master degree in engineering ?

Yes.

I don't agree with this, considering that the law create barriers to physicists.
For example a physicist can't build a house even if he could, because he is not a civil engineer.
A physicist can't create a motor, because the law says that only mechanical can do that.
A physicist can't build a rocket, because the law doesn't allow him to do that.
There are a lots of examples like this.

Where are you? Where do they have such laws?

 

[Grands]

Italy.
Here it is not possible to make a bachelor's degree in physics and then to swift into an engineering master degree.

Do you want to say that in the US a physicist can build a house or a car?

 

[gmax137]

Are you talking about trade union requirements (like a licensed plumber or electrician)? Or professional engineering license (signs off on drawings for boilers, buildings, etc.)?

Somewhat dated now, but here's a guy who designed houses and cars, and he didn't have any degree at all
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buckminster_Fuller

 

[jtbell]

A person that obtained a bachelor's degree in Physics, can obtain a master degree in engineering ?

In the US, yes. Such students usually need to take some extra classes to compensate for not having taken certain engineering classes as an undergraduate.

I can’t speak to the situation in other countries.

 

[Grands]

In my country engineers and physicist are not in the same school, so a person at least can swift from electrical engineering to computer engineering, giving extra exams.

 

[russ_watters]

A "Physicist" or at least a bachelor of science (or higher) graduate of Physics can do ANYTHING that anyone else can, depending on actual courses taken and depending on actual experiences. Physics graduates are smart people. A physics graduate could do the work of a chemist, an engineer, computer scientist, software developer, photographer, archivist, various kinds of technicians.

What? Physics is not some master-field that incorporates all other fields. People in all those other fields aren't just sitting there staring at the walls 90% of the time!

 

[Choppy]

There's an important distinction to be made here between an education and a professional qualification.

A degree in physics is not very much of a professional qualification. Alone, it doesn't qualify you for many particular jobs and those it does qualify you for, outside of academia, are generally jobs that require some degree but not a specific physics degree.

That said, an education in physics does tend to come with a broad set of skills that are often desired in the workplace. And in a lot of cases it's relatively easy for a physics graduate to obtain further professional qualifications because of his or her physics education.

You might be interested in some of the data from the AIP:
https://www.aip.org/statistics/employment

 

[Grands]

Ok, but no one completely answered the question, there are some examples of jobs available only for physicist ?
Obviously I'm not including the accademia carrier.

 

[Choppy]

Ok, but no one completely answered the question, there are some examples of jobs available only for physicist ?
Obviously I'm not including the accademia carrier.

Are you talking about something like a Medical Physicist? We are experts in areas like radiation oncology physics, diagnostic imaging, MRI, or nuclear medicine. Often we work in cancer hospitals that provide radiation therapy. The training is quite specialized though. Usually you do an accredited MSc or PhD in medical physics (or there are certificate programs for those who've completed a PhD in an other area of physics), and then do a two year accredited residency.

Another example might be a Geophysicist, who would work for oil exploration companies. I know less about the specific requirements to get into that field, but usually is starts with a graduate degree in geophysics.

You could also look up ZapperZ's posts about Accelerator Physicists. There are lots of applications for accelerators beyond frontline patient care in medicine.

Health Physicists work in occupational safety contexts around radiation, both in medical and nuclear power generation settings.

I'm sure nuclear plants hire Nuclear Physicists from time to time as well.

 

[symbolipoint]

Italy.
Here it is not possible to make a bachelor's degree in physics and then to swift into an engineering master degree.

Do you want to say that in the US a physicist can build a house or a car?

Well there you go. Italy is not the US. Fact is, some people do earn Bachelor of Science Degree in Physics (in some places of the world) and do become engineers.

 

[symbolipoint]

What? Physics is not some master-field that incorporates all other fields. People in all those other fields aren't just sitting there staring at the walls 90% of the time!

How do we stop them from doing those "anythings" I mentioned, which some of them actually do?

 

[jasonRF]

This is not true in most countries. Many jobs require certification, membership in professional societies, or other restrictions that limit who can work in that field. These often come with educational requirements. In the US medical professions, many accounting positions, and much actuarial work are some examples.

There are some engineering jobs in the US that fall in this category as well. A friend of mine has a daughter that earned a physics degree and wanted to work as a civil engineer. The only problem is that she was then required to earn a second bachelors degree in civil engineering in order to have the qualifications for whatever license was required for the types of jobs she wanted (may have been Professional Engineer - I'm not sure).

My take on this topic is that yes, in principle a physics degree can provide a broad set of skills that can be leveraged into a variety of careers and physics majors have a pretty good record of gaining employment (at least in the US). However, if you already know that you want to work as a computer scientist or civil engineer or ... , then you are probably better off earning a degree in the field you want to work in.

Jason

 

[Grands]

Well there you go. Italy is not the US. Fact is, some people do earn Bachelor of Science Degree in Physics (in some places of the world) and do become engineers.

In my country the exams of math and physics that a physicists have to do are considered more hard then those one at engineering, at the same time there are lots of exams in the engineering course that aren't available in a physics degree

 

[Grands]

There are some engineering jobs in the US that fall in this category as well. A friend of mine has a daughter that earned a physics degree and wanted to work as a civil engineer. The only problem is that she was then required to earn a second bachelors degree in civil engineering in order to have the qualifications for whatever license was required for the types of jobs she wanted (may have been Professional Engineer - I'm not sure).

In my country doing that is considered like starting again university from almost 0, because there are at least 3-4 exams in common between physics and engineering courses.

 

[ISamson]

What jobs can a physicist do?
Maybe some engineering, architecture.
Possibly work for some science, space and technology companies, like NASA, SpaceX, HyperloopOne and such.

 

[Dr. Courtney]

There are some engineering jobs in the US that fall in this category as well. A friend of mine has a daughter that earned a physics degree and wanted to work as a civil engineer. The only problem is that she was then required to earn a second bachelors degree in civil engineering in order to have the qualifications for whatever license was required for the types of jobs she wanted (may have been Professional Engineer - I'm not sure).

The requirement for an actual degree in the discipline is much more common in Civil Engineering than in Mechanical Engineering or Electrical Engineering. It does relate to certifications and liabilities, so the requirement for the degree in Civ E is much firmer. For the Mech E and the EE jobs if you can get the application past the HR wonks and into the hands of the actual hiring managers who are capable of assessing skills of someone with a physics degree, then they stand a pretty good chance. However, the task of getting applications past HR wonks is much harder now that it was 20 years ago. The key words in the job ad are "or related field."

 

[Nidum]

http://careers.rolls-royce.co.uk/united-kingdom/interns-and-graduates#/

 

[CrysPhys]

Speaking strictly about the US; don't know about other countries. Remember, when we talk about various fields such as physics, engineering (even specific branches of engineering such as civil, mechanical, or electrical), or medicine, these fields encompass a wide range of functions and tasks. Certain functions and tasks require specific certifications or licenses (which in turn may require specific degrees). Other functions and tasks don't. And even the functions and tasks that require specific certifications or licenses can in certain circumstances be largely performed by individuals without the specific certifications or licenses if the work is supervised by, reviewed by, and signed off by someone who does hold the specific certifications or licenses.

Let's suppose a physicist is someone who holds only degrees in physics; no other degrees; no other certifications or licenses. Then consider the following examples.

(a) Medical.

(1) Can a physicist treat patients? No.
(2) Can a physicist develop new instruments and methods for diagnosing disease? Yes.
(3) Can a physicist develop models to improve the diagnosis of disease? Yes.

(b) Engineering.

(1) Can a physicist specify the motors to be installed in a building to operate the elevators? No.
(2) Can a physicist design a new type of motor? Yes.
(3) Can a physicist specify the grade of concrete to be poured in the foundation of a new building? No.
(4) Can a physicist develop an improved grade of concrete? Yes.

With respect to the initial question about physicists working on Wall Street: Yes they do. Some analyze financial data. Some develop predictive models about how portfolios will behave, when to sell, when to buy. Some work as analysts for venture capital firms. Other physicists work for insurance and credit-card companies doing risk analysis and predictive modelling. Here's a story in APS News of a physicist who went from chaos theory to credit-card fraud prevention:

https://www.aps.org/publications/apsnews/201701/profiles.cfm

[By the way, APS News presents columns frequently on physicists working outside of what is considered mainstream physics. You should skim other previous issues as well (publically accessible).]

As for me personally (BS, MS, PhD all in physics), I've worked as a physicist, but also as a quality process engineer, systems architect and engineer, network architect and engineer, and patent agent. The architect and engineer jobs did not require any additional formalities. Working as a patent agent required me to pass the USPTO patent bar exam to get registration (a BS in physics met the requirements to take the exam; and I bought a self-study package to prep for the exam). But note, if you choose not to take the exam, you can work as a "technical specialist" in a law firm, and perform almost all the same functions and tasks as a patent agent ... except papers submitted to the patent office would need to be filed under the name of a registered practitioner (patent agent or patent attorney), who accepts final responsibility for the work.

 

[Grands]

(2) Can a physicist develop new instruments and methods for diagnosing disease? Yes.
(3) Can a physicist develop models to improve the diagnosis of disease? Yes.

Those ones are theoretical problems?

Can a physicist develop an improved grade of concrete?

I always thought this is something that only civil engineer can do, by doing research.

With respect to the initial question about physicists working on Wall Street. Yes they do. Some analyze financial data. Some develop predictive models about how portfolios will behave, when to sell, when to buy. Some work as analysts for venture capital firms. Other physicists work for insurance and credit-card companies doing risk analysis and predictive modelling.

I asked a physicist that worked in a bank and he said that he did a technical work, while the financial part was doing by people that didn't had a degree, but had a technical education.

But note, if you choose not to take the exam, you can work as a "technical specialist" in a law firm, and perform almost all the same functions and tasks as a patent agent

Like Einstein ?

 

[CrysPhys]

(a)Those ones are theoretical problems?(b) I always thought this is something that only civil engineer can do, by doing research.(c) I asked a physicist that worked in a bank and he said that he did a technical work, while the financial part was doing by people that didn't had a degree, but had a technical education.

(d) Like Einstein ?

<<Reference letters in bold added.>>

(a) There is theory, applied analysis, and experimental work.
(b) There is a branch of physics now referred to as "materials physics". In the US, as far as I know, there are no specific requirements on who can develop a new material. There are specific requirements for those who test and certify against industry standards (and, in some instances, to get new materials approved by regulatory agencies) and, in some instances, for those who specify what particular materials are to be used in a particular project or application.
(c) I personally know physicists who do financial analysis for investment firms.
(d) Einstein worked as a patent examiner for the Swiss patent office.

 

[russ_watters]

How do we stop them from doing those "anythings" I mentioned, which some of them actually do?

By not hiring them.

 

[symbolipoint]

By not hiring them.

Based on what has been stated and discussed, that has not universally happened yet.

 

[russ_watters]

Based on what has been stated and discussed, that has not universally happened yet.

I'm having trouble parsing that and don't see what "yet" has to do with anything. Here's what you said:

A "Physicist" or at least a bachelor of science (or higher) graduate of Physics can do ANYTHING that anyone else can, depending on actual courses taken and depending on actual experiences. Physics graduates are smart people. A physics graduate could do the work of a chemist, an engineer, computer scientist, software developer, photographer, archivist, various kinds of technicians.

Unless the caveat "depending on actual courses taken and depending on actual experiences" makes the entire claim meaningless, there are lots and lots of jobs that a physics degree doesn't qualify a person to do and thus would not get hired for. For example:

-A physics degree plus training in culinary arts would qualify a physicist to be a pastry chef. A physicist without training in culinary arts would not get hired.
-A physics degree and extreme athletic aptitude would qualify a physics to be a professional baseball player. A physicist without extreme athletic aptitude would not get hired.
-A physics degree and a law degree would qualify a physicist to be a lawyer. A physicist without a law degree would not get hired.

 

[symbolipoint]

I'm having trouble parsing that and don't see what "yet" has to do with anything. Here's what you said:

Unless the caveat "depending on actual courses taken and depending on actual experiences" makes the entire claim meaningless, there are lots and lots of jobs that a physics degree doesn't qualify a person to do and thus would not get hired for. For example:

-A physics degree plus training in culinary arts would qualify a physicist to be a pastry chef. A physicist without training in culinary arts would not get hired.
-A physics degree and extreme athletic aptitude would qualify a physics to be a professional baseball player. A physicist without extreme athletic aptitude would not get hired.
-A physics degree and a law degree would qualify a physicist to be a lawyer. A physicist without a law degree would not get hired.

You should not be confused. Some physics graduates found work as engineers. Why? How? Let them explain it if they want. Should they have been hired for those positions? If they are qualified, yes. Could a physics graduate be trained in something on-the-job if it is scientific but not specifically in Physics? Yes, which is why some employer could hire the person. I'm not saying that a degree in physics is any replacement for a license or certificate.

Other than just what I found discussed here, there were B.S. Degree Physics graduates from where I studied who did get engineering jobs. These people at that time were not engineering graduates; but were physics graduates.

 

[russ_watters]

You should not be confused. Some physics graduates found work as engineers.

I'm aware. But you said that a physicist could do "ANYTHING that anyone else can" -- "ANYTHING" is more than just engineering. So you overstated, right? You meant to say that physics has SOME overlap with other fields and thus a trained physicist can perform SOME other jobs. Right?

 

[symbolipoint]

I'm aware. But you said that a physicist could do "ANYTHING that anyone else can" -- "ANYTHING" is more than just engineering. So you overstated, right? You meant to say that physics has SOME overlap with other fields and thus a trained physicist can perform SOME other jobs. Right?

"ANYTHING" includes engineering, but I do not mean that undergrad Physics is any replacement for license or certificates. Maybe those Physics bachelor degree people were wrong to get their engineering positions. Then again, maybe their particular positions did not require having licenses.

Regardless of scientific related or unrelated jobs, a person with a physics degree is, at the very least, very trainable.