Why is there a contradiction?

In summary: There is a small mistake in the summary. Here it is corrected:In summary, the electric field at origin due to an electric dipole distribution in volume ##V## having boundary ##S## is given by the negative gradient of the potential due to the continuous electric dipole distribution. This can be expressed as an integral over the source (primed) coordinates, with the integrand containing a singular point. However, this integral does not converge, leading to a contradiction with the result obtained by applying the vector identity ##\mathbf{A} \cdot \nabla\psi=-(\nabla \cdot \mathbf{A})\psi + \nabla \cdot (\psi \mathbf{A})
  • #1
Mike400
59
6
Let:

##\nabla## denote dell operator with respect to field coordinate (origin)

##\nabla'## denote dell operator with respect to source coordinates

The electric field at origin due to an electric dipole distribution in volume ##V## having boundary ##S## is:

\begin{align}

\int_V \dfrac{(\mathbf{M} \cdot \hat{r}) (\hat{r})}{r^3} dV

&=-\nabla \left( \int_V \dfrac{\mathbf{M} \cdot \hat{r}}{r^2} dV \right)\\

&=-\nabla \left[ \int_V \mathbf{M} \cdot \nabla' \left( \dfrac{1}{r} \right) \right]\\

&=-\nabla \left[ - \int_V \dfrac{\nabla' \cdot \mathbf{M}}{r} dV

+ \int_V \nabla' \cdot \left(\dfrac{\mathbf{M}}{r} \right) dV \right] \\

&=-\nabla \left( \int_V \dfrac{-\nabla' \cdot \mathbf{M}}{r} dV + \oint_S \dfrac{\mathbf{M} \cdot \hat{n}}{r} dS \right)\\

&=\int_V \dfrac{-\nabla' \cdot \mathbf{M}}{r^2}(\hat{r}) dV + \oint_S \dfrac{\mathbf{M} \cdot \hat{n}}{r^2} (\hat{r}) dS\\

\end{align}

In the above equation, we applied the vector identity ##\mathbf{A} \cdot \nabla\psi=-(\nabla \cdot \mathbf{A})\psi + \nabla \cdot (\psi \mathbf{A})## and the divergence theorem.

If the origin point is not on boundary ##S## but inside ##V##:

\begin{align}

LHS&=\int_V \dfrac{(\mathbf{M} \cdot \hat{r}) (\hat{r})}{r^3} dV\\

&=\int_V \dfrac{(\mathbf{M} \cdot \hat{r}) (\hat{r})}{r^3}\ r^2 \sin\theta\ d\theta\ d\phi\ dr\\

&=\int_V \dfrac{(\mathbf{M} \cdot \hat{r}) (\hat{r})}{r}\ \sin\theta\ d\theta\ d\phi\ dr\\

\end{align}
##(1)## Here the integrand contains a singular point and hence the integral diverges.

\begin{align}

RHS&=\int_V \dfrac{-\nabla' \cdot \mathbf{M}}{r^2}(\hat{r}) dV + \oint_S \dfrac{\mathbf{M} \cdot \hat{n}}{r^2} (\hat{r}) dS\\

&=\int_V \dfrac{-\nabla' \cdot \mathbf{M}}{r^2}(\hat{r})\ r^2 \sin\theta\ d\theta\ d\phi\ dr

+ \oint_S \dfrac{\mathbf{M} \cdot \hat{n}}{r^2} (\hat{r}) dS\\

&=-\int_V \nabla' \cdot \mathbf{M}\ (\hat{r})\ \sin\theta\ d\theta\ d\phi\ dr

+ \oint_S \dfrac{\mathbf{M} \cdot \hat{n}}{r^2} (\hat{r}) dS

\end{align}
##(2)## Here both the integrands contain no singular point and hence the integrals converge.

##(1)## and ##(2)## contradicts. Why is there such a contradiction?
 
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  • #2
I am a little confused about your use of coordinates. Source coordinates are usually primed and field coordinates unprimed. When you say
Mike400 said:
The electric field at origin due to an electric dipole distribution in volume ##V## having boundary ##S## is:
$$\int_V \dfrac{(\mathbf{M} \cdot \hat{r}) (\hat{r})}{r^3} dV,$$
how did you derive that expression and what are you integrating over? If the integral is over unprimed coordinates, as implied by the way it is written, then the result of the integration should be a function of ##\mathbf{r'} ## because ##\mathbf{M} ##, being the source, is a function of ##\mathbf{r'} ##.
 
  • #3
kuruman said:
I am a little confused about your use of coordinates. Source coordinates are usually primed and field coordinates unprimed. When you say
how did you derive that expression and what are you integrating over? If the integral is over unprimed coordinates, as implied by the way it is written, then the result of the integration should be a function of ##\mathbf{r'} ## because ##\mathbf{M} ##, being the source, is a function of ##\mathbf{r'} ##.
Sorry for the confusion. Actually all the integration are with respect to source (primed) coordinates.

The equation I mention is reached by taking the negative gradient of potential due to continuous electric dipole distribution.
 
  • #4
Mike400 said:
Sorry for the confusion. Actually all the integration are with respect to source (primed) coordinates.
But then the result will have no dependence on the field (unprimed) coordinates. You need both ##\mathbf{r} ## and ##\mathbf{r'} ## in your starting integral. What you should have is
$$\varphi(\mathbf{r})=\frac{1}{4\pi\epsilon_0}\int_V \frac{\mathbf{M}(\mathbf{r'})\cdot (\mathbf{r}-\mathbf{r'})}{|\mathbf{r}-\mathbf{r'}|^3}dV'$$which, after a series of transformations found in most decent intermediate E&M textbooks, becomes
$$\varphi(\mathbf{r})=\frac{1}{4\pi\epsilon_0}\oint_S\frac{\mathbf{M}\cdot \hat n}{|\mathbf{r}-\mathbf{r'}|} dA' + \frac{1}{4\pi\epsilon_0}\int_V\frac{(-\mathbf{\nabla '}\cdot \mathbf{M})}{|\mathbf{r}-\mathbf{r'}|} dV'.$$This is sort of what you have and is applicable to points outside the distribution where the dipolar approximation is valid. I think your problem is trying to apply it at points inside the distribution where, unavoidably, there will be dipoles too close for the dipolar approximation to be valid.
 
Last edited:
  • #5
kuruman said:
But then the result will have no dependence on the field (unprimed) coordinates. You need both ##\mathbf{r} ## and ##\mathbf{r'} ## in your starting integral. What you should have is
$$\varphi(\mathbf{r})=\frac{1}{4\pi\epsilon_0}\int_V \frac{\mathbf{M}(\mathbf{r'})\cdot (\mathbf{r}-\mathbf{r'})}{|\mathbf{r}-\mathbf{r'}|^3}dV'$$which, after a series of transformations found in most decent intermediate E&M textbooks, becomes
$$\varphi(\mathbf{r})=\frac{1}{4\pi\epsilon_0}\oint_S\frac{\mathbf{M}\cdot \hat n}{|\mathbf{r}-\mathbf{r'}|} dA' + \frac{1}{4\pi\epsilon_0}\int_V\frac{(-\mathbf{\nabla '}\cdot \mathbf{M})}{|\mathbf{r}-\mathbf{r'}|} dV'.$$
Both your equations are correct and that was what I was referring to.

kuruman said:
This is sort of what you have and is applicable to points outside the distribution
Mathematically speaking, it is applicable inside the distribution also. See the below two references:

(1) Reflections in Maxwell's treatise. Section 4.2
(2) Electromagnetic theory. (by Alfred) Chapter II Section 2, The para below equation (2.4)
 

1. Why do contradictions exist in science?

Contradictions in science can occur due to a variety of factors such as limited understanding or incomplete data, conflicting theories or hypotheses, or errors in experimental design or interpretation.

2. How do scientists deal with contradictions?

Scientists use the scientific method to address contradictions by formulating new hypotheses, conducting further research and experiments, and revising existing theories to better explain the observed phenomenon.

3. Are contradictions in science a sign of failure?

No, contradictions in science are a natural and necessary part of the scientific process. They provide opportunities for further exploration and understanding, and can lead to breakthroughs and advancements in knowledge.

4. Can contradictory results in science be resolved?

Yes, contradictory results can be resolved through further experimentation, data analysis, and collaboration among scientists. In some cases, the resolution may also involve revising or refining existing theories.

5. How do contradictions in science impact the reliability of scientific findings?

Contradictions in science do not necessarily invalidate or diminish the reliability of scientific findings. They can actually strengthen the reliability of findings by encouraging critical thinking, replication of experiments, and peer review.

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