Would You Kill Lizards Hanging Around Your House & Pooping?

[jack action]

It would be interesting to hear what you think would be a more effective way to deal with this kind of thing.

Methods used to prevent malaria include medications, mosquito elimination and the prevention of bites. As of 2022, there is one malaria vaccine for children which is licensed for use known as RTS,S. The presence of malaria in an area requires a combination of high human population density, high Anopheles mosquito population density and high rates of transmission from humans to mosquitoes and from mosquitoes to humans. If any of these is lowered sufficiently, the parasite eventually disappears from that area, as happened in North America, Europe, and parts of the Middle East.

Although mosquito control is an important component of malaria control strategy, elimination of malaria in an area does not require the elimination of all Anopheles mosquitoes. For instance, in North America and Europe, although the vector Anopheles mosquitoes are still present, the parasite has been eliminated. Some socioeconomic improvements (e.g., houses with screened windows, air conditioning), once combined with vector reduction efforts and effective treatment, lead to the elimination of malaria without the complete elimination of the vectors. Some important measures in mosquito control to be followed are: discourage egg-laying, prevent development of eggs into larvae and adults, kill the adult mosquitoes, do not allow adult mosquitoes into places of human dwelling, prevent mosquitoes from biting human beings and deny them blood meals.

Killing people and insects are vastly different things.

Is it? This is assuming mosquitos are "evil" and play no other role than to kill humans. Very unlikely based on simple observations and errors committed in the past, trying to "correct" nature.

admit the low worth you have of human life in comparison with mosquitos.

It is you who considers the low worth of mosquitos in comparison to humans. It is a dangerous path to take. How many people need to die from one life form for one to decide to eradicate that life form? If one values human life above all, isn't a single human death enough? Comparing one individual with another is one thing, comparing one life form over another is vastly different.

I thought the great lesson learned was that diversity rules and we all depend on each other, even beyond the animal kingdom.

 

[BillTre]

Is it? This is assuming mosquitos are "evil" and play no other role than to kill humans. Very unlikely based on simple observations and errors committed in the past, trying to "correct" nature.

You are mistaken if you think that everything is equally import in nature (considering nature as the network of their interactions).
The main species of mosquito that transmits these many deadly diseases is invasive from Africa. The ecosystem there will probably be fine without it.

It is you who considers the low worth of mosquitos in comparison to humans.

Good. I was hoping I made myself clear.

It is a dangerous path to take. How many people need to die from one life form for one to decide to eradicate that life form? If one values human life above all, isn't a single human death enough?

You are over simplifying complex issues, but probably rhetorically.

Comparing one individual with another is one thing, comparing one life form over another is vastly different.

Some phylogeneticists think of different life forms as individuals evolving on a phylogenetic tree.
Not really sure what the point is here.
Just as no two "life forms" are going to be the same, neither are individual organisms.

 

[pinball1970]

We (royal we) used to trap them in cages then release them back into the wild, where they would make their way back into the facility... It was a part of the world where the culture prevented the killing of animals.

You could try a stuffed predator? A snake? we had an issue with pigeons in the same part of the world. I was thinking poison or shooting them, my guide whispered in my ear, "whatever you do, don't suggest killing them."

I was so focussed on the technical parts of the visit I had not thought about the culture (like an idiot.)

We ended up getting these swirling geometric shapes that scared them off.

They eventually worked out big plastic eagles did not pose much of threat but geckos / lizards may not have that intellectual ability.

 

[jack action]

Going back to the subject at hand, what you need is not to kill them - especially if they are useful - but just to repel them from the house. Look for "lizard repellent". It seems they are very sensitive to smell.

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[BWV]

cats and certain small dog breeds are good lizard killers. We had an American Eskimo dog that was a prolific lizard slayer

 

[BillTre]

Perhaps surprisingly, exterminators (at least in Oregon) know a lot about non-lethal ways to get rid of vermin.
I have used these guys to get rid of roaches and silverfish using things like plants extracts they don't like. We did this because using poisons in animal facilities is considered dangerous to the animals being kept in the facility.
It would not be surprising if there are similar things for lizards.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Perhaps surprisingly, exterminators (at least in Oregon) know a lot about non-lethal ways to get rid of vermin.

Good for repeat business.

 

[kyphysics]

cats and certain small dog breeds are good lizard killers. We had an American Eskimo dog that was a prolific lizard slayer

An acquaintance of mine says it depends on whether they are well-fed and domesticated at home or not. A hungry feral cat/dog might be great at catching these. But, he said a fat, lazy, pampered cat might be totally useless. He says his neighbor has many such cats. They won't even move an inch if a mouse walks by. Just stares and does nothing.

 

[BWV]

An acquaintance of mine says it depends on whether they are well-fed and domesticated at home or not. A hungry feral cat/dog might be great at catching these. But, he said a fat, lazy, pampered cat might be totally useless. He says his neighbor has many such cats. They won't even move an inch if a mouse walks by. Just stares and does nothing.

Domesticated cats kill for fun, not food

 

[jack action]

An acquaintance of mine says it depends on whether they are well-fed and domesticated at home or not. A hungry feral cat/dog might be great at catching these. But, he said a fat, lazy, pampered cat might be totally useless. He says his neighbor has many such cats. They won't even move an inch if a mouse walks by. Just stares and does nothing.

Female cats are better at hunting mice. How to Choose the Perfect Mouse-Catching Cat

 

[kyphysics]

Someone should write/code an algorithm that figures out what happens in a defined ecosystem when you kill x, y or z members in it. I'd use that software and see what effects killing lizards, spiders, snakes, etc. have.

 

[BillTre]

Someone should write/code an algorithm that figures out what happens in a defined ecosystem when you kill x, y or z members in it. I'd use that software and see what effects killing lizards, spiders, snakes, etc. have.

They've been doing ecological studies on these things at least since the 1970's.
In each case you need to know a lot about how the ecosystem and how it parts interact before you could make any predictions.
Software along will not suffice.

 

[kyphysics]

They've been doing ecological studies on these things at least since the 1970's.
In each case you need to know a lot about how the ecosystem and how it parts interact before you could make any predictions.
Software along will not suffice.

Right, I mean, have the scientists consult.

I can definitely see how it'd be tough to make it accurate, given there are probably lots of unknowns still about how things interact. Maybe for a very small, simple ecosystem the predictability would be very high/accurate. I'm in the suburbs of a decent-sized city, where I'd imagine it'd be super tough.

Lots of people here have roof rat (they are black and small) problems. Lots of people have cockroach problems too. Those are the two most common.

The Home Depot three miles away from me has giant rat problems. I've seen them running up the walls. They are over 1 foot long and very thick. The clerk told me DO NOT buy the snacks near the registers. The rats tear those open at night to eat. What's interesting is that the clerk said they have feral cats that roam the outdoor garden and parking lot areas. But they DO NOT try to hunt the giant rats. He's seen them near each other and the cats do not try to attack them. Those rats are HUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE!

 

[DaveC426913]

The main species of mosquito that transmits these many deadly diseases is invasive from Africa. The ecosystem there will probably be fine without it.

Invasive or no, it may still play an important part in the ecosystem. For example, bats feast on mosquitos. If the mosquitos go, it's possible the bats go. Or perhaps the bats stay and find a new food source, crowding out some other insectivore. The trouble is, we don't know what is interlinked in the food web.

 

[jrmichler]

Someone should write/code an algorithm that figures out what happens in a defined ecosystem when you kill x, y or z members in it. I'd use that software and see what effects killing lizards, spiders, snakes, etc. have.

The trouble is, we don't know what is interlinked in the food web.

This has been attempted in the fisheries area. Even in small seepage lakes, which are simpler biosystems than on land, nobody has been able to create useable software. To get an idea of the complexity of lake ecology, start by reading Limnology by Wetzel. Then follow that by reading The Trophic Cascade in Lakes by Carpenter and Kitchell. Then realize that the food web on land is even more complex.

An interesting article on trying to affect a species population by removing its predators: https://phys.org/news/2022-05-scales-walleye-fish.html. That research lake is an 82 acre lake a half hour drive from my house. I have had the privilege of discussing this research project with two of the investigators.

 

[gleem]

Invasive or no, it may still play an important part in the ecosystem. For example, bats feast on mosquitos. If the mosquitos go, it's possible the bats go. Or perhaps the bats stay and find a new food source, crowding out some other insectivore. The trouble is, we don't know what is interlinked in the food web.

That is exactly the problem with many disastrous interventions in ecosystems, the parts of an ecosystem are so interconnected that you cannot see how one part affects another. You remove some insignificant creature or plant when you destroy a habitat which causes another creature to either perish or adapt causing a domino effect as other creatures must adapt in response. This can result in a sort of butterfly effect.

Did you know that bats are a critical factor in the pollination of mangos, bananas, and avocados so the elimination of some species will come back to haunt us.

Nuisance animals are usually human acclimated and are a nuisance for a reason. Their control is necessary but must be effective. Fix the leak instead of constantly bailing out the boat

NYC is using carbon monoxide to kill rats which is very effective but they will return because the root cause of their infestation is not addressed. You have rats, mice, and cockroaches because your place is easy pickings.

Home Depot sells rat traps and poison, use them, they do not need to have food in the store for the small amount of revenue that it generates. Bird seeds on the other hand can be easily made inaccessible to mice and rats.

 

[pinball1970]

That is exactly the problem with many disastrous interventions in ecosystems, the parts of an ecosystem are so interconnected that you cannot see how one part affects another. You remove some insignificant creature or plant when you destroy a habitat which causes another creature to either perish or adapt causing a domino effect as other creatures must adapt in response. This can result in a sort of butterfly effect.

Did you know that bats are a critical factor in the pollination of mangos, bananas, and avocados so the elimination of some species will come back to haunt us.

Nuisance animals are usually human acclimated and are a nuisance for a reason. Their control is necessary but must be effective. Fix the leak instead of constantly bailing out the boat

NYC is using carbon monoxide to kill rats which is very effective but they will return because the root cause of their infestation is not addressed. You have rats, mice, and cockroaches because your place is easy pickings.

Home Depot sells rat traps and poison, use them, they do not need to have food in the store for the small amount of revenue that it generates. Bird seeds on the other hand can be easily made inaccessible to mice and rats.

Disagree, we can risk it. If we can introduce a sterile version (mosquito )into the population that takes over and causes its own destruction then we should do it.
It is termed the world's "most dangerous animal" by the WHO for a reason.
Malaria, zica, Yellow fever. I'm with the biologist on this. Edit: https://www.who.int/health-topics/lymphatic-filariasis#tab=tab_1
@BillTre

 

[gleem]

Disagree,

With what? I don't advocate putting up with anything that is dangerous. It's them or us.

 

[pinball1970]

With what? I don't advocate putting up with anything that is dangerous. It's them or us.

Oops, it was Dave not you apologies.

Tampering with the eco system and removing a player is a risk, agreed.

In this case the numbers support annihilation of this animal in my opinion.
Why wait?
Death is one metric but there is also Ill, very ill, and near death removing billions of productive hours of those third world economies.

 

[DaveC426913]

Disagree, we can risk it. If we can introduce a sterile version (mosquito )into the population that takes over and causes its own destruction then we should do it.

That would collapse several branches of the ecosystem.

It is termed the world's "most dangerous animal" by the WHO for a reason.

The smart thing would be to address the disease, not the carrier.

 

[BillTre]

That would collapse several branches of the ecosystem.

How would this happen?
Several branches of the ecosystem?
What exactly do you mean by this?

 

[DaveC426913]

How would this happen?
Several branches of the ecosystem?
What exactly do you mean by this?

Well, birds, bats, frogs, dragonflies, fish, spiders, turtles - depend on mosquitos, some species almost exclusively.
https://www.orkin.com/pests/mosquitoes/what-eats-mosquitoes
So let's see, that's mammals, reptiles, amphibians, birds, insects and fish.

Bats can eat up to 1200 mosquitos per hour.
https://www.google.com/search?q=what+eats+mosquitoes

 

[BillTre]

Well, birds, bats, frogs, dragonflies, fish, spiders, turtles - depend on mosquitos, some species almost exclusively.
https://www.orkin.com/pests/mosquitoes/what-eats-mosquitoes
So let's see, that's mammals, reptiles, amphibians, birds, insects and fish.

From your own reference:

While bats eat mosquitoes, they are far more effective at locating, catching and eating insects other than mosquitoes.

The others eat some mosquitos, but I doubt they depend upon them. For one thing, mosquitos adults and larvae are seasonal.

In the Western hemisphere, Anopheles mosquito are invasive animals.
They either slipped into a vacant place in the food net or they displaced native organisms to make their living. Not likely to be something that something else DEPENDS upon for its living.

There are many species of mosquitos in many environments. The Anopheles mosquito is probably not a major component of the ecosystems in which they reside.
The Anopheles mosquito is not a keystone species whose presence stabilizes whole ecosystems.

Bats can eat up to 1200 mosquitos per hour.
https://www.google.com/search?q=what+eats+mosquitoes

"Can" doesn't mean that they do that all the time. They likely have a varied diet.

 

[gleem]

There are many species of mosquitos

About 3500.

 

[pinball1970]

Well, birds, bats, frogs, dragonflies, fish, spiders, turtles - depend on mosquitos, some species almost exclusively.
https://www.orkin.com/pests/mosquitoes/what-eats-mosquitoes
So let's see, that's mammals, reptiles, amphibians, birds, insects and fish.

Bats can eat up to 1200 mosquitos per hour.
https://www.google.com/search?q=what+eats+mosquitoes

Some background Dave as I appreciate your response.

As I said, historically this animal has caused huge problems to human health and continues to do so.
If the planet climate baseline temperature continues to rise then it's habitat could move west and north.

A quick summary here. https://www.cdc.gov/globalhealth/stories/2019/world-deadliest-animal.html#:~:text=Spreading diseases like malaria, dengue,home and around the world.

This recently https://eu.thespectrum.com/story/ne...oes-reported-near-lake-mead-water/1419323001/

Historically when you remove them locally

https://www.insectweek.org/blog/mosquitoes-and-the-panama-canal/#:~:text=Of the tens of thousands,the disease gets its name).

 

[BillTre]

Historically when you remove them locally

https://www.insectweek.org/blog/mosquitoes-and-the-panama-canal/#:~:text=Of the tens of thousands,the disease gets its name).

Guess that's why Walter Reed has a hospital named after him.

 

[berkeman]

Historically when you remove them locally

https://www.insectweek.org/blog/mos...e tens of thousands,the disease gets its name).

Guess that's why Walter Reed has a hospital named after him.

LOL, kind of ironic that they would name a hospital after him...

The workers and engineers still viewed miasma theory (‘bad air’), foul tropical soils, and direct contact with infected persons as the causes of the disease. This lack of knowledge of its entomological transmission route in fact resulted in many disastrous decisions facilitating the disease to spread[3]. For instance, hospital wards in which the afflicted were treated were routinely kept with wide open windows, meaning mosquitos were free to enter, feast upon infected inpatients, and disperse freely to blight the healthy. Even worse, potted plants brought in to improve aesthetics provided females with pools of standing water: a perfect habitat in which to lay their eggs. The French were effectively culturing the disease in the very rooms in which the sick were being treated!

It was US army physician Major Walter Reed who finally demonstrated unequivocally thatAedes aegypti was the vector of the virus, building on the ‘mosquito hypothesis’ proposed by Cuban scientist Carlos Finlay in 1881. This was achieved through an ethically questionable, but simple experiment[5]. A newly emerged A. aegypti mosquito was taken by Reed, allowed to feed on a suffering patient, and then transferred – voluntarily – to his friends and co-workers. When they became sick with Yellow Fever days later (but thankfully surviving) the breakthrough had been made[5]. The Americans now knew how to succeed where the French had failed.

 

[BillTre]

It was US army physician Major Walter Reed who finally demonstrated unequivocally thatAedes aegypti was the vector of the virus, building on the ‘mosquito hypothesis’ proposed by Cuban scientist Carlos Finlay in 1881. This was achieved through an ethically questionable, but simple experiment[5]. A newly emerged A. aegypti mosquito was taken by Reed, allowed to feed on a suffering patient, and then transferred – voluntarily – to his friends and co-workers. When they became sick with Yellow Fever days later (but thankfully surviving) the breakthrough had been made[5]. The Americans now knew how to succeed where the French had failed.

I view this as the guy was in the army and had a mission of dealing with yellow fever.
Seems like a very military approach to me.

 

[AlexB23]

We get these lizard things (not sure if it's a lizard or some close reptile cousin) hanging around the sides of house and inside the garage (never inside the actual home). They leave poop everywhere.

I've caught a bunch with sticky traps. They walk across it and get stuck on them. They starve to death and die and we throw them away. I told this to a neighbor and he said he leaves them alone, because they eat the annoying bugs around you - even termites (which we think we NOW HAVE - as I found what seems to be a mud tube and a freaking small bug with white-ish wings near it).

So, for him, it's an easy trade-off. Less bugs and possibly even termi te prevention vs. lizard poop (which he can just clean up like dog poop).

Same question holds for possums. They are clumsy, shy, and weird looking animals. Yet, they eat all the really bad bugs around the neighborhood. Run them off our property or let them "hang out" to kill the annoying bugs?

No. I will catch the lizards and release them, and have an inspector find any holes in my garage. Plus lizards consume bugs which could be even worse. Let nature take its course.

 

[StatGuy2000]

To answer the original question -- no I would not kill a lizard that happens to be pooping around my house. The most I would probably do would be to do what I can to take measures to prevent lizards from entering my house, to the best of my ability.

This story brought me back memories of a time many years ago, when I was living in an apartment in a city southwest of Toronto. The apartment was nice enough, but there were a small flock of pigeons that loved to perch on my balcony, and leave behind their poop. I eventually called in a specialist, who cleaned the balcony thoroughly and installed netting to prevent the birds from returning. Fortunately, the landlord covered the cost.

 

[sbrothy]

I struggle with this too.

I prefer to think that my compassion for lower animals isn't about their pain so much as it is about me unable to turn off my empathy (i.e. I am projecting).

To be brutally honest I sometimes feel like this about humans I genuinely do not like (for whatever reasons, from pheromones to political and philosophical disagreements).

Being Human | Robert Sapolsky (Check out around 23:50 in.)

I think we should count ourselves really lucky that (those of of who aren't outright sociopaths) have empathy; even for other species.

And then, "ironically", things like genocides occur anyway. It's a mystery to man (sic)....

 

[docnet]

I don't think opossums see very well. I've seen some people keep them as pets. What makes me especially fond of them is they like to eat ticks. Their 'playing dead' is apparently an involuntary response to threats. They seem mostly harmless to humans. Some can be quite adorable.