Zero momentum reference frame and an inelastic collision

In summary, the question asks for the final velocity of two carts, A and B, relative to the zero momentum reference frame. The initial velocities of the carts are given, as well as the fact that 12 J of energy is released during the collision. The attempt at a solution involves using the equations for change in kinetic energy and momentum, but it is not clear how to proceed due to the inelastic nature of the collision. The next step would likely involve using conservation of momentum and energy to solve for the final velocities.
  • #1
Cutetys
3
0

Homework Statement


In my reference frame, I see two carts collide. Both cart A and Cart B have a mass of 2 kg. Cart A has initial velocity v= 3 m/s i-hat + 2 m/s j-hat, cart B has initial velocity v= 3 m/s I-hat + 4 m/s j-hat. 12 J are released in the collision.

In previous parts of this question I found:
The velocity of the zero momentum reference frame relative to me is: 3 m/s I-hat +3 m/s j-hat.
And the two velocities of the carts in the zero momentum reference frame are: Cart A = 0 m/s I-hat - 1 m/s j-hat, Cart B = 0 m/s I-hat + 1 m/s j-hat.

Q: Determine the final velocity of the two carts relative to the zero momentum reference frame.

Homework Equations


ΔK= Kf - Ki
K= 1/2*m*v2
m*v1i + m*v2i = m*v1f + m*v2i
vAo=vAB + vBo maybe?

The Attempt at a Solution


So I know change in ΔK is involved as that it is given in the the question and it isn’t relevant for any questions to follow. I’ve tried combining the momentum and kinetic energy equations but that proved to be useless. (EDIT: I did not originally show my work for this. Sorry about that, here it is :
va= 32 m/s i-hat + 22 m/s j-hat = √13 m/s
vb= 32 m/s I-hat + 42 m/s j-hat = √25 m/s
-12 J = Kf - (1/2*2kg(√(25m/s)2 + (√13m/s)2)
-12 = v1f + v2f - 38 J
26 J - v2f = v1f
2 kg (3 m/s i-hat + 2 m/s j-hat) + 2 kg (3 m/s I-hat + 4 m/s j-hat) = 2 kg (v1f + v2f)
2 kg (3 m/s i-hat + 2 m/s j-hat) + 2 kg (3 m/s I-hat + 4 m/s j-hat) = 2 kg (26 J - v2f) + 2 kg(v2f)
2 kg (3 m/s i-hat + 2 m/s j-hat) + 2 kg (3 m/s I-hat + 4 m/s j-hat) = 52 kg*J - 2 kg(v2f) + 2 kg(v2f))

I know how to attempt this question if the collision were elastic (v12i = -v12f) but as this collision is inelastic I haven’t found a way to use it.This collision does not appear to be totally inelastic either so I cannot find the velocities through that route.

At this point I have no clue what to try next and I really could use an idea to bounce off of. Any help is greatly appreciated.
 
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  • #2
Cutetys said:
I’ve tried combining the momentum and kinetic energy equations but that proved to be useless.
That should be the way. please post your working.
 
  • #3
haruspex said:
That should be the way. please post your working.

Sorry bout that, here’s my work:
va= 3 m/s i-hat + 2 m/s j-hat = 13^1\2 m/s
vb= 3 m/s I-hat + 4 m/s j-hat = 25^1/2 m/s
-12 J = Kf - (1/2*2((25^1\2)^2 + (13^1/2)*2)
-12 = v1f + v2f - 38 J
26 J - v2f = v1f
2 kg (3 m/s i-hat + 2 m/s j-hat) + 2 kg (3 m/s I-hat + 4 m/s j-hat) = 2 kg (v1f + v2f)
2 kg (3 m/s i-hat + 2 m/s j-hat) + 2 kg (3 m/s I-hat + 4 m/s j-hat) = 2 kg (26 J - v2f) + 2 kg(v2f)
2 kg (3 m/s i-hat + 2 m/s j-hat) + 2 kg (3 m/s I-hat + 4 m/s j-hat) = 52 kg*J - 2 kg(v2f) + 2 kg(v2f)

And that’s where I come to to a problem. - 2 kg(v2f) + 2 kg(v2f) = 0, so from this equation I can not find v2f or v1f.
 
  • #4
Cutetys said:
3 m/s i-hat + 2 m/s j-hat = 13^1\2 m/s
I assume you mean the magnitude of that vector is √13.
Cutetys said:
-12 = v1f + v2f - 38 J
v1f and v2f are not energies.

Your work would be much easier to read if you were to use the subscript and superscript buttons (X2, X2). Better still, LaTeX.
 
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  • #5
haruspex said:
I assume you mean the magnitude of that vector is √13.

v1f and v2f are not energies.

Your work would be much easier to read if you were to use the subscript and superscript buttons (X2, X2). Better still, LaTeX.

Sorry, I'm new to the forum so I didn't realize those option were there. I've edited my original post so hopefully it's easier to read.
You are also correct, I meant the magnitude of the vector. I also edited it to make that more clear.
These edits probably don't matter too much as I think I know where I'm going wrong now. Thank you so much!
 

1. What is a zero momentum reference frame?

A zero momentum reference frame is a frame of reference in which the total momentum of the system is equal to zero. This means that the vector sum of all momenta in the system is zero, and there is no net movement in any direction.

2. Why is a zero momentum reference frame useful in studying collisions?

A zero momentum reference frame allows us to simplify the analysis of collisions by eliminating the need to consider the momentum of the entire system. This can make calculations and equations easier to work with and can provide valuable insights into the behavior of the colliding objects.

3. What is an inelastic collision?

An inelastic collision is a type of collision in which kinetic energy is not conserved. This means that some of the kinetic energy of the colliding objects is lost, usually in the form of heat, sound, or deformation. In an inelastic collision, the colliding objects stick together or bounce off each other with less energy than they had before the collision.

4. How does the concept of a zero momentum reference frame apply to inelastic collisions?

In an inelastic collision, the total momentum of the system is still conserved even though the kinetic energy is not. This means that in a zero momentum reference frame, the total momentum before and after the collision will still be equal to zero. This can be a useful tool in analyzing the behavior of inelastic collisions.

5. Can a zero momentum reference frame be used for all types of collisions?

No, a zero momentum reference frame is only applicable for collisions in which the total momentum is conserved. In elastic collisions, where kinetic energy is conserved, a zero momentum reference frame is not necessary as the momentum can be easily calculated using the equations of kinetic energy. In these cases, it is more useful to use a frame of reference in which the equations are simpler and easier to work with.

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