I need a book to solve Schrodinger's eqn numerically

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around finding a book that addresses the numerical solution of the Schrödinger equation without relying on approximations or special techniques such as Hartree-Fock. Participants explore various numerical methods and express differing views on the feasibility of solving the equation in its entirety.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks a book that allows for the numerical solution of the Schrödinger equation without approximations, expressing frustration over the lack of existing resources.
  • Another participant suggests exploring various numerical methods such as Finite Element Method (FEM), Finite Difference Method (FDM), and Finite Volume Method (FVM) for potential resources.
  • Several participants argue that it is impossible to solve the Schrödinger equation without some form of approximation due to the limitations of digital computers, which operate with finite numbers and operations.
  • A participant expresses a desire to calculate spectral data and the spatial distribution of electrons in complex atoms, indicating a specific application of interest.
  • There is a correction regarding the Hartree-Fock model, clarifying that it does not necessarily involve spherical approximations of orbitals, but rather transforms the multi-electron problem into single-electron problems while considering electron interactions.
  • One participant mentions an older book, "Methods of Molecular Quantum Mechanics" by R. McWeeny, as a potential resource, while also suggesting looking into density functional theory and quantum Monte Carlo methods.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the feasibility of solving the Schrödinger equation without approximations, with some insisting it is impossible while others explore the nuances of numerical methods and their applications. The discussion remains unresolved on the best approach to take.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations related to the nature of numerical methods and the inherent approximations required in computational approaches. There is also a mention of the specific contexts in which different methods may be applicable.

jonjacson
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I have found this one that looks perfect:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/331999929X/?tag=pfamazon01-20

THe problem is that it has not been published yet :( , but I can't believe there is no other book on the subject. What I want is to solve numerically the Schrödinger equation with no special techniques, no hartree fock or things like that, I want the whole equation without neglecting anything or aproximating anything.
Do you know any book that explains this and that has been already published?

Thanks
 
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There are many methods for the numerical solving of partial differential equations and specifically of linear PDEs (such as the Schrödinger equation) like the Finite Element Method (FEM) the Finite Difference Method (FDM) and the Finite Volume Method (FVM). Not sure which method is the best for shcrodinger equation, but you could search for books for these methods and see if any book offers special treatment for the Schrödinger equation.
 
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jonjacson said:
What I want is to solve numerically the Schrödinger equation with no special techniques, no hartree fock or things like that, I want the whole equation without neglecting anything or aproximating anything.
That's impossible. Simply the fact that computers are digital machines that can only work with a finite set of discrete numbers and a finite number of operations means that you'll have to do some approximations at one point.

There are many different numerical approaches that one can use to solve the Schrödinger equation depending on the situation. What is it exactly you would like to calculate?
 
DrClaude said:
That's impossible. Simply the fact that computers are digital machines that can only work with a finite set of discrete numbers and a finite number of operations means that you'll have to do some approximations at one point.

There are many different numerical approaches that one can use to solve the Schrödinger equation depending on the situation. What is it exactly you would like to calculate?

There is a book from Demtroder that shows spectral data on the elements, I would like to be able to calculate this data, what is the spatial distribution of the electrons on complex atoms etc
 
DrClaude said:
That's impossible. Simply the fact that computers are digital machines that can only work with a finite set of discrete numbers and a finite number of operations means that you'll have to do some approximations at one point.

There are many different numerical approaches that one can use to solve the Schrödinger equation depending on the situation. What is it exactly you would like to calculate?

I know, but I did not mean that.

What I meant is that in the Hartree Fock model you approximate orbitals by spherical shapes, and then you calculate atom properties. I don't want to neglect the fact that real orbitals are not spherical. I hope now you understand what I mean.
 
I would welcome more replies, thanks!
 
jonjacson said:
What I meant is that in the Hartree Fock model you approximate orbitals by spherical shapes
This is not what Hartree-Fock is. The basic idea is simply that you transform the multi-electron problem into series of single-electron ones, while considering the potential energy due to the other electrons. There is no requirement for the field created by the other electrons to be spherical. (Note that in the absence of external fields, you expect the total electron distribution to be isotropic.)

I know of an older book, Methods of Molecular Quantum Mechanics by R. McWeeny, that discusses the subject in details (focussing more on molecules than atoms, as the title implies). There may be newer references that are more up to date. You may also look into completely different approaches, such as density functional theory or quantum Monte Carlo. I found the following after a quick search, which may be useful to you: https://arxiv.org/pdf/1008.2369.pdf
 
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DrClaude said:
This is not what Hartree-Fock is. The basic idea is simply that you transform the multi-electron problem into series of single-electron ones, while considering the potential energy due to the other electrons. There is no requirement for the field created by the other electrons to be spherical. (Note that in the absence of external fields, you expect the total electron distribution to be isotropic.)

I know of an older book, Methods of Molecular Quantum Mechanics by R. McWeeny, that discusses the subject in details (focussing more on molecules than atoms, as the title implies). There may be newer references that are more up to date. You may also look into completely different approaches, such as density functional theory or quantum Monte Carlo. I found the following after a quick search, which may be useful to you: https://arxiv.org/pdf/1008.2369.pdf

Thanks, I will have a look.
 

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