The smartest man in universe believes in Intelligent Design

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Christopher Michael Langan, often referred to as the "smartest man in the universe," advocates for Intelligent Design (ID), linking it to his interpretation of Biblical accounts as metaphorical truths. Critics argue that his beliefs lack scientific grounding and question his credibility, noting that high IQ does not equate to sound reasoning or expertise in scientific disciplines. The discussion highlights skepticism about Langan's motivations, suggesting he may promote ID for political or financial gain rather than genuine belief. Participants express frustration at the conflation of science and theism, emphasizing that ID does not fit within scientific frameworks. Overall, the conversation reflects a mix of humor, skepticism, and critique regarding Langan's views and his self-portrayal.
  • #91
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  • #93
Langan's nonsense can be read here http://www.iscid.org/papers/Langan_CTMU_092902.pdf

Click on the last link to The CTMU and Intelligent Design. Amazing how he managed to ramble on for several pages without making a single statement that actually had any scientific merit or providing any facts to back up his thoughts. :rolleyes:
 
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  • #94
Evo said:
Amazing how he managed to ramble on for several pages without making a single statement that actually had any scientific merit
Why is that so amazing. Just look at this thread. I have some input from his wife to post here to clear things up for some of you, I'm just awaiting for her permission. So don't you lock it until tomorrow ;)
 
  • #95
whatta said:
Why is that so amazing. Just look at this thread.
We're not trying to BS people into thinking that something has scientific merit when it's already been shown that it doesn't.

I have some input from his wife to post here to clear things up for some of you, I'm just awaiting for her permission. So don't you lock it until tomorrow ;)
Unless she can provide data that meets the criteria bolded below, I don't see the point.

Defining intelligent design as science

The scientific method is a body of techniques for investigating phenomena and acquiring new knowledge of the natural world without assuming the existence or nonexistence of the supernatural, an approach sometimes called methodological naturalism. Intelligent design proponents believe that this can be equated to materialist metaphysical naturalism and have often said that not only is their own position scientific, but it is even more scientific than evolution, and that they want a redefinition of science as a revived natural theology or natural philosophy to allow "non-naturalistic theories such as intelligent design."[96] This presents a demarcation problem, which in the philosophy of science is about how and where to draw the lines around science. For a theory to qualify as scientific, it must be:

Consistent (internally and externally)

Parsimonious (sparing in proposed entities or explanations, see Occam's Razor)

Useful (describes, explains and predicts observable phenomena)

Empirically testable and falsifiable (see Falsifiability)

Based on multiple observations, often in the form of controlled, repeated experiments

Correctable and dynamic (changes are made as new data are discovered)

Progressive (achieves all that previous theories have and more)

Provisional or tentative (admits that it might not be correct rather than asserting certainty)


For any theory, hypothesis or conjecture to be considered scientific, it must meet most, but ideally all, of these criteria. The fewer criteria are met, the less scientific it is; and if it meets only a few or none at all, then it cannot be treated as scientific in any meaningful sense of the word. Typical objections to defining intelligent design as science are that it lacks consistency,[97] violates the principle of parsimony,[98] is not falsifiable,[99] is not empirically testable,[100] and is not correctable, dynamic, tentative or progressive.[101]

In light of its apparent failure to adhere to scientific standards, in September 2005, 38 Nobel laureates issued a statement saying "Intelligent design is fundamentally unscientific; it cannot be tested as scientific theory because its central conclusion is based on belief in the intervention of a supernatural agent."[102] And in October 2005 a coalition representing more than 70,000 Australian scientists and science teachers issued a statement saying "intelligent design is not science" and called on "all schools not to teach Intelligent Design (ID) as science, because it fails to qualify on every count as a scientific theory."[103]

Critics also say that the intelligent design doctrine does not meet the criteria for scientific evidence used by most courts, the Daubert Standard. The Daubert Standard governs which evidence can be considered scientific in United States federal courts and most state courts. The four Daubert criteria are:

The theoretical underpinnings of the methods must yield testable predictions by means of which the theory could be falsified.

The methods should preferably be published in a peer-reviewed journal.
There should be a known rate of error that can be used in evaluating the results.

The methods should be generally accepted within the relevant scientific community.

In deciding Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District on December 20, 2005, Judge John E. Jones III agreed with the plaintiffs, ruling that "we have addressed the seminal question of whether ID is science. We have concluded that it is not, and moreover that ID cannot uncouple itself from its creationist, and thus religious, antecedents."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligent_design#Defining_intelligent_design_as_science
 
  • #96
Response to the PDF supplied.

http://megafoundation.org/CTMU/Artic...TMU_092902.pdf

Abstract: Inasmuch as science is observational or perceptual in nature, the goal of providing a scientific model and mechanism for the evolution of complex systems ultimately requires a supporting theory of reality of which perception itself is the model (or theory-to-universe mapping).

Sounds reasonable.

Where information is the abstract currency of perception,

This is sounds good but it doesn't as far as I can tell mean anything.

such a theory must incorporate the theory of information while extending the information concept to incorporate reflexive self-processing in order to achieve an intrinsic (self-contained) description of reality.
He's talking about some sort of descriptive inhernetly self contained reality. Well philosophical and a tad vague, but, let's read on?

This extension is associated with a limiting formulation of model theory identifying mental and physical reality, resulting in a reflexively self-generating, self-modeling theory of reality identical to its universe on the syntactic level.
This is pretty much the same thing said above? This sentence is redundant, ok we got it the first time.

By the nature of its derivation, this theory, the Cognitive Theoretic Model of the Universe or CTMU, can be regarded as a supertautological reality-theoretic extension of logic.

You mean that saying the same thing needlessly somehow reinforces some sort of point?

Uniting the theory of reality with an advanced form of computational language theory, the CTMU describes reality as a Self-Configuring Self-Processing Langauge or SCSPL, a reflexive intrinsic language characterized not only by self-reference and recursive self-definition, but full self-configuration and self-execution (reflexive read-write functionality).

Are we talking Mega tautology now? That's pretty much what you said the first time, God damn it I get it..Now how are you going to explain this system?

SCSPL reality embodies a dual-aspect monism consisting of infocognition, self-transducing information residing in self-recognizing SCSPL elements called syntactic operators. The CTMU identifies itself with the structure of these operators and thus with the distributive syntax of its self-modeling SCSPL universe, including the reflexive grammar by which the universe refines itself from unbound telesis or UBT, a primordial realm of infocognitive potential free of informational constraint. Under the guidance of a limiting (intrinsic) form of anthropic principle called the Telic Principle, SCSPL evolves by telic recursion, jointly configuring syntax and state while maximizing a generalized self-selection parameter and adjusting on the fly to freely-changing internal conditions.

I think I get this it's the same thing you said above but now your trying to establish that it's somewhat evolutionary, care to express any reason for your self consistent giga tautology? Or are we going to be subject to more waffle?

SCSPL relates space, time and object by means of conspansive duality and conspansion, an SCSPL-grammatical process featuring an alternation between dual phases of existence associated with design and actualization and related to the familiar wave-particle duality of quantum mechanics

What? Related how? can you be clear exactly what you mean? Is this an analogy or are you really suggesting your theory is essentially quantum mechanics but with lots of long sentences that endlessly reiterate the same thing. If you think that the laws of the universe boil down to physics then bloody well say so:biggrin:

. By distributing the design phase of reality over the actualization phase, conspansive spacetime also provides a distributed mechanism for Intelligent Design,

But so far you have done nothing to explain your theory except to make an analogy with QM, I didn't quite fathom, and use some ontological expressions about language somehow begatting reality?

adjoining to the restrictive principle of natural selection a basic means of generating information and complexity. Addressing physical evolution on not only the biological but cosmic level, the CTMU addresses the most evident deficiencies and paradoxes associated with conventional discrete and continuum models of reality, including temporal directionality and accelerating cosmic expansion, while preserving virtually all of the major benefits of current scientific and mathematical paradigms.

Well to be frank if the rest of this document is anything like this, I don't think I'm going to get very far with understanding anything other than the fact that he thinks there are some flaws with evolution, so far he's pretty much repeated himself 4 times, and not even clearly represented a single idea.

OK thoughts onwards to end of page 2, now we're cooking it's taken a whole page for him to say it, and might I say "say it for the fifth time now", I see what he means about super tautology:wink: :smile:

Synatatic isomporphism? Why does he use expresions like this why not just say synonamous or an analogy? This guy loves using long words:rolleyes:


The existence of these laws is given by the stability of perception. Because these repetitive patterns or universal laws simultaneously describe multiple instances or states of nature, they can be regarded as distributed “instructions” from which self-instantiations of nature cannot deviate; thus, they form a “control language” through which nature regulates its self-instantiations. This control language is not of the usual kind, for it is somehow built into the very fabric of reality and seems to override the known limitations of formal systems. Moreover, it is profoundly reflexive and self-contained with respect to configuration, execution and read-write operations. Only the few and the daring have been willing to consider how this might work…to ask where in reality the laws might reside, how they might be expressed and implemented, why and how they came to be, and how their consistency and universality are maintained. Although these questions are clearly of great scientific interest, science alone is logically inadequate to answer them; a new explanatory framework is required. This paper describes what the author considers to be the most promising framework in the simplest and most direct terms possible.

Brilliant he's just taken a hundred words to describe the meaning of nature? Is this guy having a laugh?

On a note of forbearance, there has always been comfort in the belief that the standard hybrid empirical-mathematical methods of physics and cosmology will ultimately suffice to reveal the true heart of nature. However, there have been numerous signals that it may be time to try a new approach. With true believers undaunted by the (mathematically factual) explanatory limitations of the old methods

Scientists aren't either, your damned right forebearance, are you going to make a point at some point or what?

, we must of course empathize; it is hard to question one’s prior investments when one has already invested all the faith that one has. But science and philosophy do not progress by regarding their past investments as ends in themselves; the object is always to preserve that which is valuable in the old methods while adjoining new methods that refine their meaning and extend their horizons. The new approach that we will be exploring in this paper, which might be colorfully rendered as “reality theory is wedded to language theory and they beget a synthesis”, has the advantage that it leaves the current picture of reality virtually intact. It merely creates a logical mirror image of the current picture (its conspansive dual), merges the symmetric halves of the resulting picture, and attempts to extract meaningful implications. Science as we now know it is thereby changed but little in return for what may, if fate smiles upon us, turn out to be vast gains in depth, significance and explanatory power.
And on that note, I thank you for your kind attention and wish you a fruitful journey.

Honestly this is perhaps one of the most frustratingly unrevelationary piece of prose I have ever read, it says the same thing over and over again as if by reiterating it, it will prove more true;makes no attempt to put a framework on the "theory", and no conclusion is reached, at the end he merely suggests what nature is, and as I understand it pretty much what most people think it is, but without doing so in any contextual way, at this point I'm left asking myself? So what was the point again?

Honestly I really did try going in with an open mind, if nothing else talking about intelligent design or philosophical theory can be quite interesting, whether you agree or not; but this guy just wasted ten minutes of my time telling me either a) nothing substantial b) nothing I didn't already know c) nothing that couldn't be summed up in a single paragraph anyway.

Reminds me of a flim flam artist, your so busy listening to the words, the meaning ceases to matter, he do sure talk pretty, sorry but to convince anyone he's got to get out of the habbit of saying much but revealing nothing, that's a really really, bad habbit he's got into there.

OK my analysis, I read a particularly good argument for Intelligent design the other day, all be it somewhat dated and by the Catholic church, this was not even in the same league, and the priests who wrote that no doubt didn't have an IQ of 192.:smile:

I made it to the end of page 4, someone tell me it gets better and less excrutiatingly wordy and vague?
 
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  • #97
Evo said:
Langan's nonsense can be read here http://www.iscid.org/papers/Langan_CTMU_092902.pdf

Click on the last link to The CTMU and Intelligent Design. Amazing how he managed to ramble on for several pages without making a single statement that actually had any scientific merit or providing any facts to back up his thoughts. :rolleyes:
Well, whad'ja expect? It's all metaphysics and philosophy, not science.
 
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  • #98
Maybe we just don't understand his hyperintelligent writings, like a baboon wouldn't understand einstein.
 
  • #99
PIT2 said:
Maybe we just don't understand his hyperintelligent writings, like a baboon wouldn't understand einstein.

The problem is, though, that Einstein wouldn't understand the scribblings of a baboon, either..
 
  • #100
PIT2 said:
Maybe we just don't understand his hyperintelligent writings, like a baboon wouldn't understand einstein.

This is what scares me about the world. Why would you rather believe that just because he claims to be the cleverest guy alive, than what you can gather from the situation for yourself?
 
  • #101
Langan?Langan who

arildno said:
Twiddle twaddle, use a paddle.
Eat a bagel, don't read Hegel. :smile:

Are you teasing Evo?Our fearless moderator?
Be careful!She belongs to female Borg community...
BTW,Marilyn Vos Savant is still listed in Guinness Book of World Records as smartest person (by I.Q. test standards ).And she is a woman if I'm not mistaken.Therefore...
 
  • #102
Kurdt said:
This is what scares me about the world. Why would you rather believe that just because he claims to be the cleverest guy alive, than what you can gather from the situation for yourself?
I dont. I tried reading his thing but i couldnt.
 
  • #103
PIT2 said:
I dont. I tried reading his thing but i couldnt.

It's not consistent and it's not comprehensible even when you do understand the rather wordy expressions he seems to get off on using, if you ask me this is meant to be appreciated only for it's tendency to be expansive, but not explicit.

Essentially what it says is that he has invented a new language(Self-Configuring Self-Processing Langauge or SCSPL) That is not only self referential but is capable of self amendment and self evolution, that can explain the development of nature in terms of itself(no explanation of how is given) He says pretty much the same thing five times, adding some obscure quantum reference which is not explained enough to make any sense of it.

At this point he ties in his language with the many states of the quantum, but does little to explain how this happens, then goes on to explain how nature itself is a means to explain his system, but since he never really explains his system, this is a sort of circular argument and leaves you with no insight into his own language or how exactly it would fit into a natural physical picture.
Simultaneously he dismisses science and maths as being old or not able to cope with the new language, but does little to explain why he is making this assumption or why his picture is better.

In other words,I think he's indulging in sophistry or trying to trick or mislead by making very vague and non correlative statements and using very overly wordy phrases.

As I said he says much but imparts nothing, even if you do grasp what he is saying it's impossible to see where he derives such assumptions from, or even what point he is trying to make if any, other than he's found out a new way of talking about reality that makes no coherent sense.

I'll maybe try and comprehend the next 4 pages later, if I work out if it is worth the effort :lol:

EDIT:

I then went on to try and make sense of his explanations, and failed miserably, I obviously am not intelligent enough to understand his reasoning, but then there are no examples here that I can make head nor tale of? Usually he makes an assertion and then holds it true without explaining why? As if somehow we're supposed to understand why there must be intrinsic causality but without an external causation or vice a versa, care to give us an analogy, apparently not.

It's bewilderingly unclear, and to my mind completely incomprehensible, perhaps someone with a deeper understanding of quantum mechanics and philosophy can take a look, but I personally could get little out of it, other than a bemusing array of self contained arguments that had no explanation other than obscure references.

He's either a genius beyond a mere mortals understanding, or more likely he's simply disappeared into a reality no one else is meant to fathom, nor in fact will ever be able to as it simply does not make sense :smile:

And the worst part is he never tries to explain his own language and how it would fit into his argument? It's almost like he's worried by revealing the cogs and bolts, it would uncover his arguments as flimsy.

Reminds me of The Wizard of OZ, all style and no substance. :smile:
 
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  • #104
Schrodinger's Dog said:
Brilliant he's just taken a hundred words to describe the meaning of nature? Is this guy having a laugh? ... Reminds me of a flim flam artist ... I made it to the end of page 4, someone tell me it gets better and less excrutiatingly wordy and vague?

This guy reminds me of a coworker from a think-tank job 15 years ago. Guy had two PhDs and sure knew how to talk purdy, but it was almost all BS. More than half of the papers he wrote were his private little joke on the world. Invoking the homunculus, philosophy, and quantum physics to prove some point about artificial intelligence and such. He had one particularly egregious piece of BS accepted at a prestigous conference. He let me in on his little joke, wondering how much more BS he could add to this without the reviewers catching on that it was 100% pure BS.
 
  • #105
Evo said:
Unless she can provide data that meets the criteria bolded below, I don't see the point.

Well she doesn't want to be quoted. So let's just say, in my own opinion he has had trouble gaining exposure for his work as he is not an academic, hence he included material on how his work relates to the concepts of ID and creationism so that they would give him a venue to publish his work. Cough. In my own opinion.
 
  • #106
His paper seemed to just babble on much like something i'd read in Theory Development. He seems to suffer from a severe lack of peer review (or having anyone read his paper and constructively criticize it for that matter.)
 
  • #107
whatta said:
Well she doesn't want to be quoted. So let's just say, in my own opinion he has had trouble gaining exposure for his work as he is a crackpot hence he included material on how his work relates to the concepts of ID and creationism so that they would give him a venue to publish his work. Cough. In my own opinion.

Fixed your post.
 
  • #108
whatta said:
happy?
Ecstatic :approve:
 
  • #109
whatta said:
Well she doesn't want to be quoted. So let's just say, in my own opinion he has had trouble gaining exposure for his work as he is not an academic, hence he included material on how his work relates to the concepts of ID and creationism so that they would give him a venue to publish his work. Cough. In my own opinion.

Here's some pointers for Mr Langan. First of all learn set theory and then if needs be modify to describe what it is he means, just saying this can be shown by venn diagrams is not going to inform anyone if you don't then go on to show said diagrams, or at least use the language and operators to make it clear what your getting at.

Diagrams are fine but only if they reveal something about the nature of what your talking about and tie it to something else. Often the diagrams need a good deal of explanation, which is seldom given.

Don't assume anyone gets obscure references, put a link to a paper, use citation.

It's not necessary to cloud your work in very obscure words, look at scientific papers, one thing that is evident is that every point is explained, every experimental point shown by graph etc, and every new concept clearly represented. Don't just use some term without explaining what it means, no one will have a clue. There's no reason why the prose can't be in depth and tackle high brow philosophical ideas without being a chore to try to comprehend. No Hagelling(inventing your own language, as a point about language)

The above skills would be learned upon studying for a degree, a degree is not just about understanding the course material but understanding how to manipulate it and present it in a clear manner,learning the language of science. If the guy won't be taken seriously until he's qualified, get qualified.

Above all though if your going to wax philosophical it's fine to make your language high brow, but make sure you enable those reading it to understand it. There's high brow and there's on another planet brow.:smile:
 
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  • #110
so why don't you send it to email given in article instead of posting it here.
 
  • #111
Okay, I think this thread has gone on long enough with all the same arguments as occur every time ID is brought up, which is to say it goes nowhere. Both sides have had their chance to present their arguments. I'm going to lock it while folks are still showing a decent amount of civility in the discussion.
 

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