Derive Acoustic Pressure Relation from Ideal Gass Law

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around deriving the acoustic pressure relation from the ideal gas law, specifically the expression p(r) = \frac{A}{r}e^{j(\omega t - kr)}. Participants are exploring the connections between pressure, volume, and the behavior of gas particles in the context of sound waves.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the application of the ideal gas law and its transformation into expressions for pressure in spherical coordinates. There are attempts to relate pressure to density and to clarify the use of Euler's relations in the context of sound waves. Questions arise regarding the treatment of the infinitesimal volume element dr and the implications of ignoring it.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants providing insights into the relationships between pressure, density, and the behavior of gas particles. Some guidance has been offered regarding the use of density in the derivation, and there is an exploration of different interpretations of the equations involved. No consensus has been reached, and participants continue to seek clarification and further understanding.

Contextual Notes

Participants are navigating the complexities of the ideal gas law and its application to acoustic pressure, with specific attention to the assumptions made about particle movement and the geometry of the problem. There is a recognition of the need to consider how density changes with sound waves, and the discussion reflects the constraints of the homework context.

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Homework Statement


Derive p(r) = \frac{A}{r}e^{j(\omega t - kr)} from pV = nRT

Homework Equations



The Attempt at a Solution


From ideal gas law I have

p(r) = \frac{nRT}{V}

R and T are constant, so I can pull them out now and replace them with A. If V is the volume of a spherical shell of thickness dr, I get

p(r) = \frac{n A}{4 \pi r^{2} dr}

This means that the only thing that changes is the net flow of mass flowing into and out of my spherical shell. Which lead to

p(r) = \frac{A cos(\omega t - k r)}{4 \pi r^{2} dr}

Putting this in exponential form I get

p(r) = \frac{A}{4 \pi r^{2} dr} e^{j(\omega t - k r)}

Because the atoms are only moving radially, I can ignore the dr part. This leads to

p(r) = \frac{A}{4 \pi r^{2}} e^{j(\omega t - k r)}

...I'm still stuck with an r^{2} in the denominator instead of just r. I think I did something wrong somewhere. I'm not sure where. Any help is appreciated.
 
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dimensionless said:
Which lead to

p(r) = \frac{A cos(\omega t - k r)}{4 \pi r^{2} dr}

Putting this in exponential form I get

p(r) = \frac{A}{4 \pi r^{2} dr} e^{j(\omega t - k r)}

Not sure I see how this is done. The Euler relations are

<br /> \cos[x]=\frac{1}{2}\left(\exp[ix]+\exp[-ix]\right)<br />

dimensionless said:
Because the atoms are only moving radially, I can ignore the dr part. This leads to

p(r) = \frac{A}{4 \pi r^{2}} e^{j(\omega t - k r)}

...I'm still stuck with an r^{2} in the denominator instead of just r. I think I did something wrong somewhere. I'm not sure where. Any help is appreciated.

Can you clarify why you ignore dr?
 
I know that the Euler relation is

<br /> <br /> \cos[x]=\frac{1}{2}\left(\exp[ix]+\exp[-ix]\right)<br /> <br />

but quite I'm sure I've seen the expression

<br /> \exp[ix] = \cos[x] + i \sin[x]<br />

used in many places but ignoring the imaginary part so that it just becomes

<br /> \exp[ix] = \cos[x] <br />

Actually, it really bothers me, but I've seen it in so many places.

I'm ignoring dr, in part because I'm seeking a particular result. As for rational, the particles are moving only as part of a sound wave, so they move parallel to dr. The pressure is force per unit area, and the area is perpendicular to dr...in other words, I need the pressure on a spherical surface rather than in a volume ( p(r) is net air pressure above the equilibrium).
 
dimensionless said:
I know that the Euler relation is

<br /> <br /> \cos[x]=\frac{1}{2}\left(\exp[ix]+\exp[-ix]\right)<br /> <br />

but quite I'm sure I've seen the expression

<br /> \exp[ix] = \cos[x] + i \sin[x]<br />

used in many places but ignoring the imaginary part so that it just becomes

<br /> \exp[ix] = \cos[x] <br />

Actually, it really bothers me, but I've seen it in so many places.

This is true, and I didn't quite think of this part, mostly because the relation actually is

<br /> \Re\left[\exp[ix]\right]=\cos[x]

That is, the real component of the exponential is the cosine term, while the imaginary, \Im, is sine.

I'm ignoring dr, in part because I'm seeking a particular result. As for rational, the particles are moving only as part of a sound wave, so they move parallel to dr. The pressure is force per unit area, and the area is perpendicular to dr...in other words, I need the pressure on a spherical surface rather than in a volume ( p(r) is net air pressure above the equilibrium).

The pressure does apply itself parallel to the radial component, not perpendicular--draw yourself a picture of a spherical wave, you'll see ;)

I think, rather than using volume, you should consider the density:

<br /> P=\frac{nkT}{V}=\frac{nkT}{m}\rho<br />

Then consider how the density \rho would change with a wave. It is possible that you will actually want to integrate, rather than just ignore the infinitesimal radial projection.
 


I think it might be simpler if I defined density n/V, so that

P=\frac{n}{V} kT= \rho kT

which leads to

\rho = \frac{n}{4 \pi r^{2} dr}

Since the number of mols varies with time, I get

\rho \cos(\omega t)= \frac{n \cos(\omega t)}{4 \pi r^{2} dr}

Conversely, I could hold the volume constant and let the number of mols (or the mass) per unit volume vary so that I get

\rho = \frac{n}{r^{2} V}

At the moment though, I'm still stuck.
 
Last edited:
I also have

\frac{1}{2}m v_{average}^{2} = \frac{3}{2}kT = \frac{3}{2}\frac{R}{n}T

this leads to

v = \sqrt{3 \frac{RT}{nm} }

and

T = \frac{n v^{2}}{3mR}

where m is the mass of a particle and v is the velocity. I also have

F = \frac{dp}{dt}

Where p=mv is the momentum. I still can't derive this equation though.
 

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