In my interpretation of this circuit correct?

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Discussion Overview

This discussion revolves around the interpretation of circuit diagrams, specifically focusing on the correct representation of ground connections and the implications of adding load resistors. Participants explore the transformation of theoretical circuit diagrams into practical forms, addressing both AC and DC components.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents their interpretation of a circuit diagram and seeks feedback on its validity.
  • Another participant clarifies that adding a load resistor alters the original circuit's currents and voltages.
  • There is a discussion about whether different grounds in the circuit can be connected, with one participant asserting that they must be connected for proper function.
  • Concerns are raised about the notation used in the diagrams, particularly regarding how to represent connections to ground and the labeling of terminals.
  • Participants discuss the implications of using electrolytic capacitors with AC supplies and the necessity of using nonpolarized capacitors in such cases.
  • Clarifications are made regarding the notation for voltage sources, emphasizing that if one terminal is grounded, it does not need to be explicitly shown in the diagram.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the correctness of circuit notation and the implications of grounding in AC and DC circuits. Some participants agree on the necessity of connecting grounds, while others question the clarity of the original diagrams. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best practices for circuit representation.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in understanding circuit notation and the potential confusion arising from different conventions in schematic representations. There are unresolved questions about the implications of connecting grounds in mixed AC and DC circuits.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for individuals interested in circuit analysis, particularly those seeking clarification on circuit diagram conventions and the practical implications of grounding in electrical circuits.

PainterGuy
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Hello everyone, :wink:

Have a see on this link:-
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/7236/vinvout.jpg

Diagram #1 is what I found in a book. I couldn't understand how this circuit will be transformed into practical form. Therefore, in Diagram #2 I have my interpretation presented. Is it any good?:rolleyes: "D" is ground for Vin and RL is load resistance such as a light bulb.

Help me out with this please.

Cheers
 
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Your added ground at the left clarifies the existing convention. If only one input terminal is shown and there is an explicit ground, then that becomes the other terminal.

However, by adding a load resistor on the right, you have altered the original circuit. Currents and voltages have changed because of the new load resistor.
 
Antiphon said:
Your added ground at the left clarifies the existing convention. If only one input terminal is shown and there is an explicit ground, then that becomes the other terminal.

However, by adding a load resistor on the right, you have altered the original circuit. Currents and voltages have changed because of the new load resistor.

Many thanks Antiphon. So my interpretation is not wrong.:smile:

Much grateful for this simple and to the point reply.

Cheers
 
Hello again, :wink:

Need your help again.

Can the grounds A, B, C, and D be connected together? I do not understand this because of Vdc. How can you mix grounds of DC and AC (Vin can be AC driven source, right?).

Diagram #1 is original version I found in a book and Diagram #2 is version of my interpretation.

Link: http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/1574/groundfordcsource.jpg

Help me please. Please keep the things simple also.

Cheers
 
That looks like a clipper circuit, so yes, Vin would likely be an AC or some other kind of varying source.

Not only can the grounds be connected together, they must be connected together for the circuit to work properly. That's basically the definition of an electrical ground. From the textbook I have in front of me:

"The [ground] symbol does not represent any specific electrical component. Rather, it represents a common electrical point in an electric circuit (or an electric system) which is a common connecting point for many components."

You don't need to draw the other terminals for Vin, Vout, and Vdc. It's a convention of schematics that when the other terminal is not given it is implied to be ground. Drawing it in is unnecessary and clutters up the schematic. Though if it helps you keep track of what's going on where, that's fine. everyone has there own way of dealing with the complexity of this stuff.

Also, Vout might not necessarily be attached to a resistor. It could go to an amplifier, an Analog/Digital converter, a demodulator, or many other different kinds of circuit.

There's no such thing as an "AC" and "DC" ground. Ground is 0V, no matter what it's hooked to. You'll have to explain a little more about why you think it would be bad.

Unrelated, but funny observation: The little overhand thing on your r's is drawn so short they look like little Y's. I tend to do the opposite. Mine are drawn so long they look like n's.
 
Many thanks Jiggy-Ninja. You have been very helpful seriously. I have learned quite many things from you in last month or so. Much grateful.

If you don't mind could you please tell me which book that definition of ground symbol has been taken from? It looks a good definition. I have a copy of Introductory Circuit Analysis by Boylested and mI personaly don't find it very much helpful. I have also started a thread in science book section to get someone's advice on simpl and straightforward book on circuit analysis for a beginner.

Cheers
 
https://www.amazon.com/dp/0028048474/?tag=pfamazon01-20

It's pretty small (less than 400 pages) but it covers all the basics for AC and DC circuits. Resistance, Reactance, voltage dividers, magnetism, transformers, even mesh current analysis (I think that's what it's called). I don't know how good it actually is, since it's not my school textbook. I think my dad got it from his friend a few years ago, and it's been laying around the house ever since. I use it mainly to compare to my other textbook in case anything was omitted or explained poorly.

It sees much less verbose and more concise than my other book, so that's one thing I like it for.
 
Last edited by a moderator:


Thanks Jiggy-Ninja. :wink:

I was reading that an electrolytic capacitor (I remember you also told me this in some other post) that care should be taken when connecting it. The +ve side of the capacitor must be attached to +ve terminal of the supply. Okay. It's easy in the case of a DC supply. We know the conventional current flows from +ve terminal of the battery to the -ve one.

But what about the AC supply which keeps on switching its +ve and -ve? Connecting the +ve side of the capacitor to either wires of the supply does not make much difference.:rolleyes: Perhaps we must use diode which let the current flow in only one direction? Help me with this please.

Cheers
 
Yeah, you don't put AC on your electrolytic, unless you like smelly capacitor junk.

If you need AC, you can get special nonpolarized electrolytic capacitors. They're actually composed of two electrolytic capacitors of opposite polarity in series with one another.
 
  • #10
The notation in your original diagram is not correct. In Diagram #2 of your OP you are suggesting that Vin is shorted to ground. That is not how you specify that Vin's negative terminal is tied to ground. Notation for circuits is such that if you have Vin or Vin+ as the only references to Vin than it is implied that the other terminal is tied to ground.
 
  • #11
sixstringartist said:
The notation in your original diagram is not correct. In Diagram #2 of your OP you are suggesting that Vin is shorted to ground. That is not how you specify that Vin's negative terminal is tied to ground. Notation for circuits is such that if you have Vin or Vin+ as the only references to Vin than it is implied that the other terminal is tied to ground.

Hello sixstringartist,

Are you speaking about the diagram in this post:
https://www.physicsforums.com/showpost.php?p=3241025&postcount=4

I think you are saying that I should not show -Vdc connected to ground. Is this you saying? Tell me please.

Cheers
 
  • #12
No, he was talking about your first diagram:

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/7236/vinvout.jpg

Both Vins are labelled the same, suggesting they are the same terminal. They should be labelled +Vin and -Vin, representing the two different terminals of the AC source.

However, when one terminal is tied directly to ground, it's not necessary to show both of them. As he and I both mentioned, you just show Vin for one terminal, and the other, by its absence, is implied to be at ground.
 
  • #13
Jiggy-Ninja said:
No, he was talking about your first diagram:

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/7236/vinvout.jpg

Both Vins are labelled the same, suggesting they are the same terminal. They should be labelled +Vin and -Vin, representing the two different terminals of the AC source.

However, when one terminal is tied directly to ground, it's not necessary to show both of them. As he and I both mentioned, you just show Vin for one terminal, and the other, by its absence, is implied to be at ground.

Many thanks Jiggy-Ninja for clearing this out. Yes he was right then.

Cheers
 

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