Rank of Matrix A with Kronecker Symbol and Sum Condition

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter zed123
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Matrix rank
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the rank of a specific type of matrix defined by certain conditions involving the Kronecker symbol and a sum condition. Participants explore the implications of these conditions on the matrix's rank, particularly focusing on cases where the matrix size is determined by a positive integer n.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a matrix A defined by the conditions a_{ij}^2=1-\delta_{ij} and \sum_{j=1}^{2n+1}a_{ij}=0, proposing that the rank of A is 2n.
  • Another participant seeks clarification on whether the initial claim is a general observation or a conjecture, and suggests using induction as a potential method of proof.
  • A participant provides an example for n=1, questioning the rank of a specific matrix and noting that the matrix must have zeros on the diagonal and entries of 1 and -1 elsewhere, which leads to a discussion about the implications for linear independence and rank.
  • There is a correction regarding the specific form of the matrix for n=1, emphasizing the requirement that the sum of each row must equal zero.
  • One participant expresses skepticism about the claim that the rank is exactly 2n, suggesting that the sum of the columns being zero implies a limitation on linear independence.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the rank of the matrix, with some supporting the claim of rank being exactly 2n and others questioning this conclusion based on the properties of the matrix. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the exact rank of the matrix under the given conditions.

Contextual Notes

Participants have not yet established a consensus on the validity of the rank claim, and there are unresolved aspects regarding the behavior of the matrix for different values of n, particularly in relation to even versus odd dimensions.

zed123
Messages
1
Reaction score
0
helloo
while working on a combinatorics problem I have found the following result:

let A=(a_{ij})_{1\leq i,j\leq2n+1} where n is a positive integer , be a real Matrix such that :
i) a_{ij}^2=1-\delta_{ij} where \delta is the kronecker symbol
ii) \forall i \displaystyle{ \sum_{j=1}^{2n+1}a_{ij}=0}
then rankA=2n
any idea ?
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
Er, what are you asking? Did you mean that you have observed it in some cases, and are wondering if it's true in general?

Can you describe qualitatively what such a matrix looks like?


I feel like induction is the most likely way to go about it, if it is true. How many particular examples have you tested, and of what sizes? Do you have a conjecture for how things behave if the dimension is even instead of odd?

(Or, maybe you could explain the combinatorics problem you were solving; maybe it's easier to do that problem than it is to work with this matrix)
 
For n= 1, that is saying that
A= \begin{bmatrix}0 & 1 & 1 \\ 1 & 0 & 1\\ 1 & 1 & 0\end{bmatrix}
What is the rank of that matrix?
 
HallsofIvy said:
For n= 1, that is saying that
A= \begin{bmatrix}0 & 1 & 1 \\ 1 & 0 & 1\\ 1 & 1 & 0\end{bmatrix}
What is the rank of that matrix?

Not exactly :frown: For n=1, it's a matrix that looks like this

A= \begin{bmatrix}0 & 1 & -1 \\ 1 & 0 & -1\\ -1 & 1 & 0\end{bmatrix}

So the entries on the diagonal must be 0, and all the other entries are 1 and -1. But the sum of every row must be 0.

It is very easy to see that such a matrix cannot have full rank (the sum of all the columns is 0, so the columns cannot be linear independent). So the rank is at most 2n. That it's exactly 2n is a bit harder...
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
1K
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
4K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
3K
  • · Replies 19 ·
Replies
19
Views
6K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
4K