How much energy can be stored using microwave energy storage?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the potential for energy storage using microwave energy in vacuum superconducting or dielectric chambers. Participants explore theoretical aspects, practical limitations, and safety concerns related to this method of energy storage, including calculations of energy density and the implications of high electric field intensities.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that storing microwaves in a vacuum chamber could be a safer alternative to traditional energy storage methods like flywheels, though they seek approximate calculations for maximal energy storage.
  • Others argue that while the concept works in principle, practical concerns arise, particularly regarding the safety of high energy levels and the potential for particle pair production when electric field intensities exceed certain thresholds.
  • One participant questions the practicality of this method, suggesting that the presence of even rare atoms in a vacuum could disrupt energy storage, and proposes that it might be more feasible than hydrogen storage methods.
  • There is a discussion about the implications of creating particle pairs under high electric fields, with some participants clarifying that this is distinct from Hawking radiation and involves real electron-positron pair production.
  • Concerns are raised about dielectric breakdown of vacuum and whether it would limit energy storage capabilities at high electric field strengths, with a request for approximate calculations on energy density limitations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views, with no consensus on the practicality or safety of microwave energy storage in vacuum chambers. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the feasibility and limitations of this energy storage method.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on the purity of the vacuum, the effects of electric field strengths on energy storage, and the unresolved nature of calculations regarding energy density and dielectric breakdown.

Stanley514
Messages
404
Reaction score
2
I know there exist methods to store a microwave in a vacuum superconducting or dielectric chamber.From first sight it looks as promising energy storage device,more safe then a flywheel.Even if chamber will be broken microwave will just left and fly into space.
Unfortunately,I was not able to find any mentions on maximal amount
of energy that could be stored in this way.Maybe somebody could help
with approximate calculations?Or some clue on how could it be calculated?
 
Last edited:
Science news on Phys.org
This isn't practical but works in principle.

When the peak electric field intensity in the vacuum is greater than than twice the rest mass of the electron, you could end up creating particle pairs.

The safety is not so clear and has to do with how quickly energy is released. Suppose your microwave box had 10^15 Joules in it. What would happen if you hit it with a hammer? Hint: a U235 fission nuke might release 1/10th as much when it goes off.
 
I think one of the problems could be that there is no pure vacuum and
even rare atoms will start to make some interruptions.I'm not going
to create new particles,but rather something similar or bit surpassing hydrocarbon fuels in energy density.Why do you think it is not practical?Maybe more practical than hydrogen storage researches?
Do you think we could create some similar resonances in intramolecular space?There is nothing between large molecules,it could be regarded as absolute "vacuum".
 
Last edited:
"When the peak electric field intensity in the vacuum is greater than than twice the rest mass of the electron, you could end up creating particle pairs."

Do you mean hypothetical Hawking radiation?
Somebody still needs to prove experimetally it does exist.
 
Stanley514 said:
"When the peak electric field intensity in the vacuum is greater than than twice the rest mass of the electron, you could end up creating particle pairs."

Do you mean hypothetical Hawking radiation?
Somebody still needs to prove experimetally it does exist.

Not hypothetical Hawking radiation. This is the very real production of (non-virtual) electron-positron pairs. You may need a nucleus (or stray proton maybe) but it will happen if the fields get high enough.
 
Will dielectric breakdown of vacuum prevent energy storage
at some point of electric field strenghts?Or there is no such issue?

In addition, there would generally be large amounts of pressure due to the fields
Could you calculate approximately how much it will limit energy density?
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
Replies
14
Views
3K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
4K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
3K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
5K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 20 ·
Replies
20
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
Replies
2
Views
3K