Plato's Narritives of Atlantis: A Clue to its True Location?

[Andre]

Plato's narritives about Atlantis, the "Critias" and the "Timaeus," are equally as famous as they are controversial.

The description of Atlantis as we know it, doesn't even remotely fit any geographical position on Earth. This has made the quest for Atlantis very very exciting and libraries full of theories have been filled about possible locations.

After over some 2300 years, a good friend of mine, Erick, may very well have solved the mystery of Atlantis. A job very well done.

No, it's not about Atlantis may have been here or Atlantis may have been there, it's all about pure unbaised scientific methods investigating Plato's work with an exceptional knowlegde of ancient languages.

No, don't try to find Atlantis, it never existed; Plato or Solon told why, but we, humble Antlantis finders, were chanceless to understand that.

I'm not going to reveal the whole (peer reviewed scientific) story, since it will be published soon. But I can give some hints.

 

[Andre]

Subject taboo?

It's not about fantastic but impossible fantasies but about the works of Plato, the http://www.activemind.com/Mysterious/Topics/Atlantis/timaeus_and_critias.html.

This is not a recipe to find Atlantis. It is a product of translation to translation to translation. Each translator has had his problems with synonyms, homographs and his own fantasy.

It's about the unraveling of the real intentions of Plato.

 

[Rader]

It's not about fantastic but impossible fantasies but about the works of Plato.http://www.activemind.com/Mysterious/Topics/Atlantis/timaeus_and_critias.html.

Andre, do you know if any of the books from the llibrary of Alexandria were salvaged or were all destroyed?

How soon will this study be out and and will you post it?

 

[Andre]

I'm sorry. I have no details about that library fire.

The first translation of the Timaeos from Greek to Latin is done by Chalcidius in the third century.

Next the first translation to latin of al the original dialogues and documents of Plato was made by Marsilio Ficino, the "Divini Platonis Operates Omnia", between 1482 and 1484. The original texts which Ficino used, are lost. So for the real meaning of PLato work we seem to depend on the intepretation of Ficino. Comparing the work of Chalcidius gives several indications that either or both must have had liberal ideas about translations.

The word "continent" for instance used to indicate the size of Atlantis was unknown in the old Greek language. Instead from Chalcidius it seems that Plato had used the indication for an island or island group. The same for "ocean", that was a "sea strait" according to the first translation. Another example is that the word "bigger" (meizôn) in the phrase that "Atlantis was bigger than Libye and Asia combined", was actually a word with could be translated to "owner of", "greater", "more beautiful than", "superior to", etc.

(Information of Georgeos Diaz-Montexano)

Anyway, Erick made his own translation and came across several similar problems. But he made the great discovery when he just followed Plato's hint about the real meanings of the names, used in the story of Atlantis.

I have read the manuscript and thus far Erick is waiting for the results of some peer reviewers. We'll keep on top of it.

 

[Rader]

I'm sorry. I have no details about that library fire.

The first translation of the Timaeos from Greek to Latin is done by Chalcidius in the third century.

Next the first translation to latin of al the original dialogues and documents of Plato was made by Marsilio Ficino, the "Divini Platonis Operates Omnia", between 1482 and 1484. The original texts which Ficino used, are lost. So for the real meaning of PLato work we seem to depend on the intepretation of Ficino. Comparing the work of Chalcidius gives several indications that either or both must have had liberal ideas about translations.

The word "continent" for instance used to indicate the size of Atlantis was unknown in the old Greek language. Instead from Chalcidius it seems that Plato had used the indication for an island or island group. The same for "ocean", that was a "sea strait" according to the first translation. Another example is that the word "bigger" (meizôn) in the phrase that "Atlantis was bigger than Libye and Asia combined", was actually a word with could be translated to "owner of", "greater", "more beautiful than", "superior to", etc.

(Information of Georgeos Diaz-Montexano)

Anyway, Erick made his own translation and came across several similar problems. But he made the great discovery when he just followed Plato's hint about the real meanings of the names, used in the story of Atlantis.

I have read the manuscript and thus far Erick is waiting for the results of some peer reviewers. We'll keep on top of it.

Thanks for your links ànd answer Andre, keep anything new posted, as this is one of great interest to me. I would like to read his translations.

We have a historian here, where I live, in Almuñecar Spain, Manuel Mateos Rivas, he is 86 years old and has been investigating, most of his life, has written about the influence of the Tartesian, Egyptian, Phoenician, Roman, Greek and Arabic culture on our local history. He is keen to see through words and knows they have many meanings when being translated.

In particular he has analyzed many documents from diverse sources. Egyptian, Tartesian, Phoenician, Roman. I questioned him on Atlantis. I asked him from all the investigation that he has done, what proof might there be that Atlantis existed. Below are some geological clues.

01-Translations of documents of Plato, may indicate a context that may be factual if translated properly. 11,350BC coincides with geological info find.

02-A treasure that was found in 1956 in the mouth of the Guadalquiver. Argantonio the king of the Tartessos, were skilled miners and craftsmen of metals, they carved also in iron. http://www.dearqueologia.com/argantonio.htm

03-Tectonic plat map showing where the land mass was. http://www.maps.com/reference/thematic/wthematic/tw_tectonic.html

04-Map showing world volcanoes, 4 volcanoes where land mass was located. http://www.maps.com/reference/thematic/wthematic/tw_volcanoes.html

05-A rapid amelioration began about 15,000 years ago, and the world's climate .reached near-modern conditions by 6000 B.C.E. .
http://www.bartleby.com/67/18.html

06-Studies done inside a cave on the Mediterranean Sea 200k east of the Pillars of Hercules, Gibraltar, where dated 12,000-15,000 year stalactites 3 meters in diameter were knocked loose from a earthquake 9 on the Richter Scale like the one that occurred in Lisboa Portugal in 1780. Posterior to 15,000 years these cave filtrations, from receding glaciers formed stalactites. The cave area is 50 meters above sea level. There is a cave that communicates the surface entrance 45 meters below the the sea. There is substantial evidence that the level of the Mediterranean Sea rose, when this Earthquake occurred some 12,000 years ago and the Pillars of Hercules were split open. Look at the geological links where the falt lines are. The land mass is estimated to have been located off the coast of Portugal and Africa.

07-Atlantic Ocean floor map. http://go.hrw.com/atlas/norm_htm/natlantc.htm
Look at the coast of Portugal before it fully load the pic, you can see the elevations of the ocean floor clearer.
http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/mgg/image/walter/NAtlEur.jpg

I would have to see something come up from salvage diving off the North Atlantic, to confirm all this. Maybe someday our instruments will be good enough to do just that. There would be a lot of silt and sand on top of 11,350 years of time gone by.

 

[whydoyouwanttoknow]

The story of Atlantis is suppose to have been spawned from a volcanic erupition many thousands of years ago that blew an island apart in the Agean I believe.

 

[selfAdjoint]

The story of Atlantis is suppose to have been spawned from a volcanic erupition many thousands of years ago that blew an island apart in the Agean I believe.

The island of Thera is presently just the remains of a crater, but archeologists have found the remains of a city there. So the catastrophe did happen. But the association with the Atlantis story is just speculation.

 

[russ_watters]

The story of Atlantis is suppose to have been spawned from a volcanic erupition many thousands of years ago that blew an island apart in the Agean I believe.

There are lots of lost ancient cities that were destroyed or abandoned for various reasons (Pompeii roughly fits your description). IMO, Atlantis is a myth that comes from this fact. Stories of real lost cities became convoluted and merged into a single myth.

Archeologists will undoubtably find more lost cities. Some will be close to the myth, some won't, but I doubt there ever was an actual city of Atlantis.

 

[whydoyouwanttoknow]

There are lots of lost ancient cities that were destroyed or abandoned for various reasons (Pompeii roughly fits your description). IMO, Atlantis is a myth that comes from this fact. Stories of real lost cities became convoluted and merged into a single myth.

Archeologists will undoubtably find more lost cities. Some will be close to the myth, some won't, but I doubt there ever was an actual city of Atlantis.

Pompeii is too recent though... but yeah, I get what you're saying. I wasn't saying that there was an actual city called Atlantis, just that the myth sprung from a city being destroyed.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

The description of Atlantis as we know it, doesn't even remotely fit any geographical position on Earth.

I don't have any strong opinions about this either way, but I spotted this so I thought to post.

Ireland Is Lost Island of Atlantis, Says Scientist

...Geographer Ulf Erlingsson, whose book explaining his theory will be published next month, says the measurements, geography, and landscape of Atlantis as described by Plato match Ireland almost exactly. [continued]

http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsArticle.jhtml?type=scienceNews&storyID=5899085&section=news

 

[Rader]

I don't have any strong opinions about this either way, but I spotted this so I thought to post.

http://www.reuters.co.uk/newsArticle.jhtml?type=scienceNews&storyID=5899085§ion=news

Geological evidence has shown that the last geat ice age lasted from 120,000 BC until around 15,000-20,000 BC. Ireland was covered by glaciers as they covered areas as far south as Northern Spain. It would have been pretty cold living there with no trees for fire, nice though for Polar Bears. Although we do not know if for sure and when Atlantis was founded, evidence from Plato dates the destruction of Atlantis at 11,350BC, by logic you would think that a empire like Atlantis described to be, would exist a few thousand years prior to its destruction.

 

[Andre]

The purpose of this thread was neither to insist that Atlantis was true nor to find the area were it could have been located. It is only to offer a new point of view on the works of Plato. Will we ever find the true meaning of the story?

In my view the message may be the same as this painting: http://dubhe.free.fr/gpeint/magritte6.html think about it.

Rader, My posts should indicate my position on Atlantis. I can't elaborate on Ericks discoveries yet, and spoil his publication but if you wish to continue detailed discussions about Plato's text I recommend contacting Georgeos Diaz. But beware, his flash fire temperature is not very high.

 

[Rader]

The purpose of this thread was neither to insist that Atlantis was true nor to find the area were it could have been located. It is only to offer a new point of view on the works of Plato. Will we ever find the true meaning of the story?

Your right so, can we have a hint when we can read Erics work?

In my view the message may be the same as this painting: http://dubhe.free.fr/gpeint/magritte6.html think about it.

Does the ant follow the sugar or does the sugar fall in front of the ant? What ever, he always gets his lunch. Maybe you could ask me how big a sugar cube he could handle. 19X his weight. Well is that walking forwards or backwards?

Rader, My posts should indicate my position on Atlantis. I can't elaborate on Ericks discoveries yet, and spoil his publication but if you wish to continue detailed discussions about Plato's text I recommend contacting Georgeos Diaz. But beware, his flash fire temperature is not very high.

Thanks very interesting. My historian friend and I know nothing of Diaz. How is that? Our local information somehow is not so local.
Its nice to know, were not alone in the universe and we are all connected. :surprise:

 

[Andre]

Well, I believe that Plato intended to give a lesson in truth, perception of truth and wishfull thinking. The pipe is a painting, so it's not a pipe but oil paint. On several occassions Critias and Timaeus state persistantly that the story is certainly true. Plato is not known for being unreliable; whenever he tells a fable he clearly announces that. So the hint is that the story is true. But why insist on that so many times?

Remember, it's not Plato saying that the story is true. Critias is and Timaeus is and Plato is only the reporter. Plato narrates about several myths about Helios the sun god and the flooding of Deucalion etc, knowing very well that these are only tales. Reality and myth are fading. But again, you can't accuse Plato, he is merely reporting what Critias is saying.

Erick does not agree with me on this one. Based on some texts he assumes that it was Solon who constructed the story. He learned the story of the war against the Sea People in Egypt as depicted on the walls of the tempel of Medinatu Habu at Luxor and decided to edit it a little, just toying with homographs of the names of the kings. After all, Solon wrote down the names and probably the original symbols as well directly from the tempel walls. So he assumes that Plato gives a truthfull narration of the actual conversation. To him Solon is guilty.

The truth may be somewhere in between. Solon may have started the construction and Plato may have finished it, being well aware of the real meaning of those names. The point is that we do not know the end of the Critias. Plato may very well have revealed the reality in the last parts with the usual philosofical lessons. We will never know.

You do not know Georgeos? I'm surprised. He is sure to be world famous in Madrid and surrounding villages.