What Determines the Direction of Space Curvature by Mass in General Relativity?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of space curvature in General Relativity, specifically focusing on what determines the direction in which mass and density affect this curvature. Participants explore the implications of mass density on space and how these concepts relate to the geometry of the universe.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • The original poster questions what governs the direction in which mass and density "sink" into space, indicating a struggle to fully grasp the implications of General Relativity.
  • One participant suggests that the center of mass determines this direction.
  • Another participant explains that the stress-energy tensor, which includes mass density, contributes to the curvature of space, asserting that normal mass and energy always curve space positively.
  • A different participant challenges the notion of mass and density having a direction, questioning the original poster's phrasing and providing an example of an open universe with negative spatial curvature.
  • One participant interprets the original poster's question as relating to the "rubbersheet" analogy, clarifying that the "sink" occurs in a direction not defined within the original space.
  • Another participant expands on the rubber sheet analogy, discussing the need to consider additional dimensions to fully understand the curvature of the universe.
  • A later reply emphasizes that the study of geometry in General Relativity does not depend on any particular embedding in higher dimensions, focusing instead on intrinsic curvature as perceived within our three-dimensional space and one-dimensional time.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the interpretation of mass and density in relation to space curvature. There is no consensus on the original poster's question, and multiple competing perspectives are presented without resolution.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note the limitations of analogies like the rubber sheet, indicating that they may not fully capture the complexities of space curvature in General Relativity. The discussion also touches on the concept of intrinsic curvature, which may not be fully understood by all participants.

Erus
Messages
41
Reaction score
0
Ok, I have studied somewhat General Relativity yet it hasn't fully answered a question that keeps popping up in my head. Though it is probably easy to answer, yet hasn't been comprehended by me. The question is on Space curve caused by dense objects in space. I will ask as simple as possible and hope you all can answer it for me..

What governs the direction mass and density sink into space?

I may be off track completely and not getting general relativity, but this question is bothering me and if I'm not getting it I would like someone to explain the answer so I can understand lol ty
 
Physics news on Phys.org
the centre of mass does.
 
At every point, the stress-energy tensor (which includes mass density) contributes to the curvature of space at that point. Normal mass and energy always curves space positively.

- Warren
 
Erus said:
What governs the direction mass and density sink into space?
What does this mean, i.e. what does ..direction of mass and density... I never heard of mass/density having a direction.
chroot said:
At every point, the stress-energy tensor (which includes mass density) contributes to the curvature of space at that point. Normal mass and energy always curves space positively.
Huh? I don't understand what you mean by this. E.g. An open universe is a universe with negative spatial curvature. And that's with normal matter.

Pete
 
Apparently the original poster is thinking of the "rubbersheet" analogy in which a marble "sinks into" the rubbersheet, causing a warp that would cause another marble to circle around it.

That is only an analogy. The "sink" would be in a "direction" not defined in the original space.
 
To expand on what Halls said, the rubber sheet has a two-dimensional surface, and gets curved in a third direction. Bringing the analogy to reality requires adding one dimension, so the three-dimensionsl surface we call the universe curves in a fourth direction. This is a direction in which we cannot move or look (or point, or even think).
 
Erus said:
Ok, I have studied somewhat General Relativity yet it hasn't fully answered a question that keeps popping up in my head. Though it is probably easy to answer, yet hasn't been comprehended by me. The question is on Space curve caused by dense objects in space. I will ask as simple as possible and hope you all can answer it for me..

What governs the direction mass and density sink into space?

I may be off track completely and not getting general relativity, but this question is bothering me and if I'm not getting it I would like someone to explain the answer so I can understand lol ty

I'm guessing that you are imagining normal 3-d space being embedded in a higher dimensional space.

The answer is that the approach used doesn't care about any particular embedding. Geometry is studied entirely from the inside of our 3 dimensional space and 1 dimensional time. SInce any extra dimensions beyond these are not observable, we don't need to theorize anything about them. Mathemeticans call this studying "intrinsic curvature".

The way this is done is by studying distances, and how they add. It's quite similar to the way that people navigate on the ocean using 2 coordinates, turning what would be a three-dimensional problem into a 2-dimensional version of the same problem, an approach that even a hypothetical 2-dimensional being could manage.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 62 ·
3
Replies
62
Views
6K
  • · Replies 58 ·
2
Replies
58
Views
4K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 35 ·
2
Replies
35
Views
5K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
1K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K