Gravity in General Relativity: Explaining Acceleration

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on understanding why a stationary object near a massive body, such as Earth, accelerates toward the center when released. Participants explore this phenomenon through the lens of general relativity, questioning the nature of spacetime curvature and its implications for motion.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the acceleration of a stationary object is due to it following the curvature of spacetime created by a massive body.
  • Others argue that the concept of "acquiring velocity" can be misleading, as velocity is frame-dependent and depends on the observer's perspective.
  • A participant emphasizes that the trajectory of an object is not curved in space but in spacetime, which is a critical distinction in understanding motion under gravity.
  • There is a discussion about the nature of geodesics in spacetime, with some noting that freely falling bodies follow specific paths determined by the spacetime geometry.
  • One participant mentions that initial conditions significantly affect the paths taken by different objects, highlighting that different scenarios (e.g., released from rest vs. moving at high speed) lead to different trajectories.
  • Another participant suggests that visual aids, such as animations, can help illustrate the concepts of spacetime curvature and motion under gravity.
  • There is a mention of a misconception regarding the existence of specific tracks in space or spacetime, clarifying that the idea of curved spacetime does not imply fixed paths.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the interpretation of motion in curved spacetime, with no consensus reached on the explanations provided. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the precise mechanisms by which curvature influences acceleration.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the understanding of motion in spacetime is complex and depends on various factors, including initial conditions and the observer's frame of reference. There are unresolved aspects related to the mathematical underpinnings of the arguments presented.

nikkor180
Messages
13
Reaction score
1
Greetings: I can understand that an object's trajectory curves about a greater mass (e. g., satellite in Earth's orbit). The spacetime is curved via the great mass and the moving object simply follows the curvature. My problem is this: Why does a stationary object at a short distance from Earth's surface (or any distance) accelerate toward the center. Can we still explain this via general relativity. How can a curved "track" in space compel a static body to acquire velocity. Is it still the curvature of spacetime that compels a static body to accelerate in magnitude?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Have you seen this animation?:
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: FactChecker
nikkor180 said:
Why does a stationary object at a short distance from Earth's surface (or any distance) accelerate toward the center.

I assume you mean an object that is released from rest at some height above the Earth's surface, so it can free fall downward?

The answer is the same as the one you gave for curving trajectories: the moving object is simply following spacetime curvature.

nikkor180 said:
How can a curved "track" in space compel a static body to acquire velocity.

The trajectory isn't curved in space; it's curved in spacetime.

"Acquire velocity" might be misleading you, because "velocity" is frame-dependent. In a frame in which the Earth is at rest, any object passing near the Earth will, in general, "acquire velocity". That's just as true of an object flying by as of an object released from rest; an object flying by does not just change direction, it changes speed.
 
nikkor180 said:
Greetings: I can understand that an object's trajectory curves about a greater mass (e. g., satellite in Earth's orbit). The spacetime is curved via the great mass and the moving object simply follows the curvature. My problem is this: Why does a stationary object at a short distance from Earth's surface (or any distance) accelerate toward the center. Can we still explain this via general relativity. How can a curved "track" in space compel a static body to acquire velocity. Is it still the curvature of spacetime that compels a static body to accelerate in magnitude?

The idea of curved spacetime does not mean there are specific tracks in space or spacetime. This seems to be a common misconception. There is another thread about it here, for example:

https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/curved-spacetime-gr-vs-Newtonian-physics.959934/#post-6087645
 
Well, freely falling test bodies follow very specific "tracks in spacetime" (shortly called world lines), namely the (time-like or lightlike if you consider massless particles to model "light rays" in the sense of ray optics) geodesics of the spacetime determined by the energy-momentum-stress distribution of the "big objects", e.g., the Schwarzschild solution for a spherically symmetric object.
 
To follow up on what's already been said, here's a picture that might help:
helix.jpg

In the absence of gravity, on the left, we have the path of a particle that is sitting at rest at a particular point in space, which means that its path through spaceTIME is a straight line (shown in blue) going parallel to the time axis (in some coordinate system). I'm just show two spatial dimensions to make it simpler. In the presence of gravity, the particle's path through spacetime is no longer a straight line when viewed in the x-y-t coordinate system, but is instead a spiral. That spiral represents an orbit in the x-y plane.

To understand how gravity works, you have to consider that it's not just space that is curved,. but spaceTIME.
 

Attachments

  • helix.jpg
    helix.jpg
    9.4 KB · Views: 565
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: vanhees71
stevendaryl said:
I'm just show two spatial dimensions to make it simpler
And because there's no way to show three spatial dimensions plus time in a two dimensional sheet :smile:
 
vanhees71 said:
freely falling test bodies follow very specific "tracks in spacetime"

Yes, but which tracks they follow depend on initial conditions. Flying by the Earth at a fairly high speed is a very different initial condition from being released from rest above the Earth's surface. That's why the two tracks are different. But they both are valid tracks of freely falling bodies in the curved spacetime around the Earth.
 
Sure, how a specific body moves in a give spacetime depends on the initial conditions, but that's not very surprising. It's true already in Newtonian physics ;-).
 
  • #10
Bandersnatch said:
Have you seen this animation?:
This animation is as good as it gets for visualizing the situation. I think there also is some crude logic that helps:
1) Since we know that spacetime is curved near a massive object, a straight path in it must contain some motion. So a released initially-stationary object must accelerate in some direction.
2) Since the distortion curvature is directly toward the center of the massive object, the acceleration of a released object will either be directly toward or directly away from the massive object.
3) If the acceleration was away from the massive body, there would only be "antigravity" and there would be no massive bodies. (Sorry, I can't think at the moment of any crude mathematical reason for it to be toward rather than away and I can only resort to the non-mathematical evidence.)
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
1K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 27 ·
Replies
27
Views
3K
  • · Replies 52 ·
2
Replies
52
Views
6K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
1K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 34 ·
2
Replies
34
Views
2K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
2K
  • · Replies 18 ·
Replies
18
Views
3K