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Dooga Blackrazor
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I am seeking a quote, from the Old Testament, that depicts God as an opressive being. If someone can direct me to one, I would greatly appreciate it.
Oh my, there are tons. I don't have a bible with me, I moved it from the bathroom and misplaced it, but for instance there is the time he got angry with some guy because he told him to destroy some city and "kill every man, woman, child and animal" because they weren't worshiping him and the guy spared some of them and God got really angry. Lots of those kinds of things in the old testament. God wasn't very nice.Dooga Blackrazor said:I am seeking a quote, from the Old Testament, that depicts God as an opressive being. If someone can direct me to one, I would greatly appreciate it.
Was that really necessary? Even if you aren't Jewish/Christian, that does not mean you should mention their holy book in such a disrespectful manner.Evo said:Oh my, there are tons. I don't have a bible with me, I moved it from the bathroom [...]
devious_ said:Was that really necessary? Even if you aren't Jewish/Christian, that does not mean you should mention their holy book in such a disrespectful manner.
Dooga Blackrazor said:I am seeking a quote, from the Old Testament, that depicts God as an opressive being. If someone can direct me to one, I would greatly appreciate it.
I'm trying to write an essay, and, in it, I will be comparing Napoleon, from George Orwell's Animal Farm, to God (specifically The Old Testament version).
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1 timothy 2:11-15;&version=9;31;49;51;74;
1 Timothy 2:11-15
King James Version (KJV)
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11Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
15Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.King James Version (KJV)
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A Public Domain Bible KJV at Zondervan Zondervan
New International Version (NIV)
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11A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. 13For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15But women[a] will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.
Footnotes:
1. 1 Timothy 2:15 Greek she
2. 1 Timothy 2:15 Or restored
New International Version (NIV)
Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society
NIV at IBS International Bible Society NIV at Zondervan Zondervan
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
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11(A)A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness.
12(B)But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.
13(C)For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve.
14And it was not Adam who was deceived, but (D)the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.
15But women will be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in (E)faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint.
Cross references:
1. 1 Timothy 2:11 : 1 Cor 14:34; Titus 2:5
2. 1 Timothy 2:12 : 1 Cor 14:34; Titus 2:5
3. 1 Timothy 2:13 : Gen 2:7, 22; 3:16; 1 Cor 11:8-ff
4. 1 Timothy 2:14 : Gen 3:6, 13; 2 Cor 11:3
5. 1 Timothy 2:15 : 1 Tim 1:14
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
Copyright © 1960, 1962, 1963, 1968, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1975, 1977, 1995 by The Lockman Foundation
NASB at Lockman The Lockman Foundation NASB at Zondervan Zondervan
New Living Translation (NLT)
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11Women should listen and learn quietly and submissively. 12I do not let women teach men or have authority over them. Let them listen quietly. 13For God made Adam first, and afterward he made Eve. 14And it was the woman, not Adam, who was deceived by Satan, and sin was the result. 15But women will be saved through childbearing[a] and by continuing to live in faith, love, holiness, and modesty.
Footnotes:
1. 1 Timothy 2:15 Or will be saved by accepting their role as mothers, or will be saved by the birth of the Child.
New Living Translation (NLT)
Holy Bible. New Living Translation copyright © 1996 by Tyndale Charitable Trust. Used by permission of Tyndale House Publishers.
Tyndale House Publishers, Inc.
New Life Version (NLV)
11Women should be quiet when they learn. They should listen to what men have to say. 12I never let women teach men or be leaders over men. They should be quiet. 13Adam was made first, then Eve. 14Adam was not fooled by Satan; it was the woman who was fooled and sinned. 15But women will be saved through the giving of birth to children if they keep on in faith and live loving and holy lives.New Life Version (NLV)
Copyright © 1969 by Christian Literature International
And another clear sign of his misogynic tendencies.arildno said:To wilfully appear as a burning bush is extremely oppressive (or, at least, punitive), IMO, considering the cultural context in which God chose to do so.
In such a desert country, not a single bush can be wasted (think of the berries lost for human consumption as a result of this rash act).
tribdog said:"And following God's command the young prophet Trib had the tip of his penis severed. And God was happy." Tribdocius 3:12
Assuming you're talking to me, I didn't call the Bible oppressive to women. I think some verses in it are, but I don't assume that the Bible is consistent, so that it expresses only one view on a subject isn't something I would argue without actually studying the entire Bible.scott_alexsk said:I don't know why you call the bible oppressive to women.
oppressive to women? (That is 1 Timothy 2:11-15, BTW) It seems to me like mostly a matter of knowing the meaning of the words, and I don't think I'm up for a discussion where we can't start by agreeing what words normally mean -- I just don't know how to question the nomral meaning of all words at the same time. Perhaps the possible implications of Adam being created first aren't so clear, but c'mon, do you know what usurp and subjection mean? Am I misunderstanding them? If I wanted to be president of the US -- I am a woman, by the way -- and these verses were in our Constitution, would it prevent me from doing so?11Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
15Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
scott_alexsk said:You are right, honestrosewater.
Ditto. :tongue2:scott_alexsk said:You might want to get that framed, I usually do not yield so easily.
-Scott
I don't know if you were asking me or not, but I define this a couple of ways. I see it as the way your behavior is perceived by others. For example, if you see a teenage deliquent, you think, "His parents must have been lousy." His behavior reflects on them.scott_alexsk said:What is your defination of honor by the way, as in "honor thy father and thy mother." Just curious.
-Scott
I wonder. With all the Christians in America among other places, why is it that their book translation seems stuck in this kind of unreadable, archaic English?...and spake to the master...
...that came into thine house...
...and said unto them...