Analyzing a Wien-Bridge Oscillator for Stability: Techniques and Tips

AI Thread Summary
Analyzing the stability of a Wien-Bridge oscillator involves understanding its unique characteristics, particularly the absence of a defined V(in) and the need for unity loop gain with a 180-degree phase shift at the oscillation frequency. The discussion highlights the importance of passive component values and their impact on gain and stability, with an emphasis on avoiding first-order effects. The original design utilized a lamp for gain stabilization, but alternatives like FETs or modulator chips are being considered. The challenge remains in determining the actual signal size, which is influenced by the non-linear characteristics of the components used. Overall, further research and tutorials are recommended to address these complexities in oscillator design.
Gokul43201
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
Gold Member
Messages
7,207
Reaction score
25
I need to analyze a Wien-Bridge Oscillator for stability. Over the last day or so, I've taught myself to understand different op-amp circuits where I have well-defined V(in) and V(out).

For the oscillator circuit though, there really is no such thing as V(in). There's a V(out) which evolves with time, and if the circuit is stable, reaches some steady state value. Is there some standard way to analyze such a circuit? Do I have to set up differential equations, or can I just look for poles in the loop gain (or loop transmission...I'm not too familiar with the terminology)?

A reference will be useful; ideas will be appreciated.

For the Wien-Bridge oscillator, see Horowitz & Hill, Section 4.14 (p 165,166).
 
Engineering news on Phys.org
I googled wein bridge oscillator tutorial, and this first hit is pretty good:

Tutorials on different oscillator types (Wein Bridge docs at bottom of page):
http://users.pandora.be/educypedia/electronics/analogosciltypes.htm

Wein Bridge Oscillator / Phase Shift Oscillator design:
http://www.ee.sc.edu/classes/Spring02/elct301/Lab_301_2W2001.doc

I'm no expert in oscillator design (although I've certainly made several of them by accident!), but the overall idea is that you want to have unity loop gain with 180 degree phase shift at the frequency of oscillation. BTW, you may already know this, but the 1869 lamp that Horowitz and Hill shows in their Wein Bridge oscillator circuit was the subject of a patent by Hewlett Packard back in the early days. HP used the circuit for their first product, which was an audio oscillator instrument used by Walt Disney Studios in their early productions. The trick of using the variable resistance of the lamp filament as a gain stabilizer was the subject of the patent. Pretty cool trick.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
berkeman said:
I googled wein bridge oscillator tutorial, and this first hit is pretty good:

Tutorials on different oscillator types (Wein Bridge docs at bottom of page):
http://users.pandora.be/educypedia/electronics/analogosciltypes.htm

Wein Bridge Oscillator / Phase Shift Oscillator design:
http://www.ee.sc.edu/classes/Spring02/elct301/Lab_301_2W2001.doc
Thanks berke !

That should give me more to look into, but I think I've got the hang of the thing. What I need to figure out is how (mostly thermal) drifts and mismatches in values of my passive components will affect the gain and the phase. It looks like, if I'm clever and lucky, I can avoid first order effects altogether (and second order terms are smaller than a ppm, which is better than what I need).

I'm no expert in oscillator design (although I've certainly made several of them by accident!), but the overall idea is that you want to have unity loop gain with 180 degree phase shift at the frequency of oscillation. BTW, you may already know this, but the 1869 lamp that Horowitz and Hill shows in their Wein Bridge oscillator circuit was the subject of a patent by Hewlett Packard back in the early days. HP used the circuit for their first product, which was an audio oscillator instrument used by Walt Disney Studios in their early productions. The trick of using the variable resistance of the lamp filament as a gain stabilizer was the subject of the patent. Pretty cool trick.
I heard this bit of trivia from my advisor last week, when he gave me this project. This original HP oscillator is now supposedly a collector's item (though the next version they came out with gets traded on and off on EBay)! Neat, alright.

I won't we using the lamp, though!:-p It'll either be a FET or a modulator chip, like the AD630.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Gah, I've run into another problem. I don't know how to arrive at the actual size of the signal.

The values of my passive components affects my gain and stability of oscillation (which I ensure by being close to a zero of my gain denominator, or 1-L(s)). But I see nothing obvious that tells me what the size of the signal will actually be.

My best guess is the following. The gain is set to some value that's a little bigger than 1. In a basic oscillator, this will cause the signal to grow from some miniuscule value till it starts to saturate the op-amp. But this is where the non-linear device kicks in. As the signal gets large the drop across the lamp gets larger (sort of like a viscous damper?). The I-V characteristics of the non-linear device is then what determines the steady state signal (or in my analogy, the terminal velocity).

Am I completely out of the ballpark here?

PS : I'm looking into more of those tutorials as I write this. So far, I haven't found anything that addresses this last problem.
 
Yeah, as I understand it, the amplitude will stabilize at the point where the gain of the opamp starts to roll off slightly because you aren't in the small-signal region anymore. You might check the opamp datasheet to see f there's a good plot of gain versus output signal size...
 
Hi all I have some confusion about piezoelectrical sensors combination. If i have three acoustic piezoelectrical sensors (with same receive sensitivity in dB ref V/1uPa) placed at specific distance, these sensors receive acoustic signal from a sound source placed at far field distance (Plane Wave) and from broadside. I receive output of these sensors through individual preamplifiers, add them through hardware like summer circuit adder or in software after digitization and in this way got an...
I have recently moved into a new (rather ancient) house and had a few trips of my Residual Current breaker. I dug out my old Socket tester which tell me the three pins are correct. But then the Red warning light tells me my socket(s) fail the loop test. I never had this before but my last house had an overhead supply with no Earth from the company. The tester said "get this checked" and the man said the (high but not ridiculous) earth resistance was acceptable. I stuck a new copper earth...
Thread 'Beauty of old electrical and measuring things, etc.'
Even as a kid, I saw beauty in old devices. That made me want to understand how they worked. I had lots of old things that I keep and now reviving. Old things need to work to see the beauty. Here's what I've done so far. Two views of the gadgets shelves and my small work space: Here's a close up look at the meters, gauges and other measuring things: This is what I think of as surface-mount electrical components and wiring. The components are very old and shows how...

Similar threads

Back
Top