Vapor from high-energy particle collisions?

[Chelle12]

Hello,

With laser cooling experiments it is possible to create Bose–Einstein condensate. Is there also vapor produced during high-energy particle collisions? And if so, what kind of gasses are it?

michel

 

[Vanadium 50]

No, the collisions happen in a vacuum.

 

[Chelle12]

No, the collisions happen in a vacuum.

Is that relevant? I thought that Bose-Einstein Condensate was generated in a vacuum:

...to avoid problems such as collisions with other room temperature gas particles we have to perform our experiments in ultra high vacuum chambers. So we suck out all of the other gasses that are normally around in our air that we breathe and we inject only a very small amount of the atoms that we want to cool down into our vacuum chamber and then with those atoms in isolation we can trap and cool those with laser light and that’s how we can manage to keep them at such a cold temperature and keep them isolated. So they’re essentially sitting in free space inside a vacuum chamber.
Source: http://www.abc.net.au/rn/science/ss/stories/s1127770.htm"

And if not in a vacuum, would there be a vapor produced?

 

[Vanadium 50]

No, like I said, there is no vapor produced. If there were, it wouldn't be a vacuum any more.

 

[Chelle12]

No, like I said, there is no vapor produced. If there were, it wouldn't be a vacuum any more.

You said the collisions happen in a vacuum, logically if there is a gas produced it wouldn't be a vacuum no more. Isn't this what experimenting is about, like the Bose-Einstein Condensate experiment creates a vapor in a vacuum environment.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Chelle, there is a limit to how often I will repeat myself. Your question has a simple yes-no answer, and the answer is no.

 

[Chelle12]

Chelle, there is a limit to how often I will repeat myself. Your question has a simple yes-no answer, and the answer is no.

Ok, could you perhaps help me out why there is vapor generated during the Bose-Einstein Condensate experiment in a vacuum, and none during the particle collisions in a vacuum.

 

[Chelle12]

thx Bob, I don't know why you removed your comment?

Anyway I was basically interested in what gassed cosmic-ray particles bombarding the moon could produce, perhaps radon? And if it could be related to the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transient_lunar_phenomenon" ?

 

[Redbelly98]

Hello,

With laser cooling experiments it is possible to create Bose–Einstein condensate. Is there also vapor produced during high-energy particle collisions? And if so, what kind of gasses are it?

michel

Allow me to clarify that these are two separate, completely unrelated questions.

Laser cooling is used as a starting step to get to a Bose-Einstein condensate. The actual BEC is produced by a final evaporative cooling process; laser cooling alone has never created BEC.

High-energy particle collisions, as produced in a particle accelerator, produce fundamental particles but they do not produce entire atoms or molecules as would be required to create a vapor.

 

[Chelle12]

Allow me to clarify that these are two separate, completely unrelated questions.

Laser cooling is used as a starting step to get to a Bose-Einstein condensate. The actual BEC is produced by a final evaporative cooling process; laser cooling alone has never created BEC.

High-energy particle collisions, as produced in a particle accelerator, produce fundamental particles but they do not produce entire atoms or molecules as would be required to create a vapor.

I had only one question, asking if there would be a gas similarly like the one that can produce BEC. Like it says on the wiki page of Bose-Gas, it isn't made of atoms or molecules but subatomic particles, bosons:

An ideal Bose gas is a quantum-mechanical version of a classical ideal gas. It is composed of bosons, which have an integer value of spin, and obey Bose-Einstein statistics. The statistical mechanics of bosons were developed by Satyendra Nath Bose for photons, and extended to massive particles by Albert Einstein who realized that an ideal gas of bosons would form a condensate at a low enough temperature, unlike a classical ideal gas. This condensate is known as a Bose-Einstein condensate.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bose_gas"

 

[Chelle12]

Chelle, there is a limit to how often I will repeat myself. Your question has a simple yes-no answer, and the answer is no.

I guess we can all learn something.

Btw I don't understand why my question has been moved over here since it was about particle physics.

Anyway check this article out:

CERN's Large Hadron Collider, which restarts this week, will eventually produce collisions 3 times more powerful than those at RHIC to see if this quark-gluon plasma actually does transition into a gas.
Source: http://blogs.physicstoday.org/newspicks/2010/02/rhic-finds-hints-to-why-we-exi.html"

 

[Redbelly98]

I had only one question, asking if there would be a gas similarly like the one that can produce BEC.

You're right, I misread your initial statement about laser cooling to be a question. I agree that the answer is no. The particles in a quark-gluon plasma behave quite differently than atoms.

Like it says on the wiki page of Bose-Gas, it isn't made of atoms or molecules but subatomic particles, bosons:

An ideal Bose gas is a quantum-mechanical version of a classical ideal gas. It is composed of bosons, which have an integer value of spin, and obey Bose-Einstein statistics. The statistical mechanics of bosons were developed by Satyendra Nath Bose for photons, and extended to massive particles by Albert Einstein who realized that an ideal gas of bosons would form a condensate at a low enough temperature, unlike a classical ideal gas. This condensate is known as a Bose-Einstein condensate.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bose_gas"

It does not say that bosons are necessarily subatomic in that quote. Bosons can be atoms. In fact the BEC work with laser-cooled atoms does use complete atoms, not subatomic particles.

Anyway check this article out:

CERN's Large Hadron Collider, which restarts this week, will eventually produce collisions 3 times more powerful than those at RHIC to see if this quark-gluon plasma actually does transition into a gas.
Source: http://blogs.physicstoday.org/newspi...hy-we-exi.html

Okay, they're using "gas" to mean a collection of particles that are not bound together in a condensed state. More specifically, the quarks would not be bound together to form protons or neutrons. At least that is one thing they will be looking for at the LHC, it has not yet been observed.

 

[Chelle12]

It does not say that bosons are necessarily subatomic in that quote. Bosons can be atoms. In fact the BEC work with laser-cooled atoms does use complete atoms, not subatomic particles.

Atoms are used to detect the vapor, a new phase of matter. I guess if it would have been made out of atoms they wouldn't call it Bose-gas, check the text under the image on the wiki page:

Velocity-distribution data of a gas of rubidium atoms, confirming the discovery of a new phase of matter, the Bose–Einstein condensate. Left: just before the appearance of a Bose–Einstein condensate. Center: just after the appearance of the condensate. Right: after further evaporation, leaving a sample of nearly pure condensate. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bose-Einstein_condensate"

and

Bosons may be either elementary, like photons, or composite, like mesons. It must be noted, however, that some composite bosons [such as helium-4 atoms] do not satisfy the criteria for Bose-Einstein statistics and are not truly bosons; a more accurate term for such composite particles would be "bosonic-composites." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosons"

I'm curious what sort of gas/vapor they are hoping to find, and if it also would bang like a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosenova" ^_^

 

[Redbelly98]

Atoms are used to detect the vapor, a new phase of matter. I guess if it would have been made out of atoms they wouldn't call it Bose-gas, check the text under the image on the wiki page:

No. The rubidium atoms *are* the Bose condensate.

 

[Chelle12]

No. The rubidium atoms *are* the Bose condensate.

No. In the case of "ice" you can say it is "water" because it are water-molecules, but in this case the composition of the atoms is changed into something new; Bose-Einstein Condensate, made out of bosons.

Einstein demonstrated that cooling bosonic atoms to a very low temperature would cause them to fall (or "condense") into the lowest accessible quantum state, resulting in a new form of matter.
This transition occurs below a critical temperature, which for a uniform three-dimensional gas consisting of non-interacting particles with no apparent internal degrees of freedom is given by... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bose-Einstein_condensate"