Last Year a Snowstorm, This Year a Hurricane? Really?

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SUMMARY

This discussion centers on the contrasting weather events of a snowstorm last Halloween and an impending hurricane threatening the East Coast. Participants highlight the potential for severe weather, including the formation of a Nor'easter, which combines elements of both snowstorms and hurricanes. The conversation emphasizes the importance of preparation for power outages and flooding, with actionable advice on stocking up on supplies and utilizing generators. The discussion also touches on the unpredictability of storm paths and the need for vigilance in weather forecasting.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of Nor'easters and their characteristics
  • Familiarity with hurricane tracking tools and models (e.g., GFS, UKMET)
  • Knowledge of emergency preparedness for severe weather
  • Basic meteorological concepts related to cold-core and warm-core systems
NEXT STEPS
  • Research the differences between Nor'easters and tropical cyclones
  • Learn about the GFS and UKMET weather models for storm tracking
  • Explore emergency preparedness strategies for hurricanes and snowstorms
  • Investigate historical instances of storms combining hurricane and snowstorm characteristics
USEFUL FOR

Individuals living in areas prone to severe weather, emergency preparedness planners, meteorology enthusiasts, and anyone interested in understanding the dynamics of Nor'easters and hurricanes.

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Last year, on the weekend before Halloween, we had about 8 inches of snow. Snow! On Halloween! This year, a hurricane (hurricane??!) is threatening to drive up the coast, hang a left through the barren wasteland and plow through southeastern Pennsylvania.

Last year, I drove through the snowstorm on the way to a friend's wedding in Gettysburg, not taking the snow seriously (how can you take October snow seriously?) and spun my car off the highway. This year, I'm afraid for my life!

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/storm_graphics/AT18/refresh/AL1812W5_NL+gif/235450W5_NL_sm.gif
 
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Be careful!
 
The apocalypse is nigh!

Last year, I drove through the snowstorm on the way to a friend's wedding in Gettysburg, not taking the snow seriously (how can you take October snow seriously?) and spun my car off the highway. This year, I'm afraid for my life!

you're a good friend.
 
Is it possible to have a hurricane that IS a snowstorm? I would guess yes. Are there any in recorded history?
 
Mentalist said:
The apocalypse is nigh!

How about the earthquake that hit Maine last week? 2012 man...

Ben Niehoff said:
Is it possible to have a hurricane that IS a snowstorm? I would guess yes. Are there any in recorded history?

A Nor'easter is basically that. Wicked bad snow storms that we get to look forward to every year. In fact, winter isn't really winter without one!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nor'easter
 
Ben Niehoff said:
Is it possible to have a hurricane that IS a snowstorm? I would guess yes. Are there any in recorded history?
A nor'easter can have both rain and snow.

The storm russ is referring to is considered a Nor'easter.

Active Weather Threat Halloween Week Nor’easter October 28th – 31st 2012

http://www.erh.noaa.gov/phi/briefing/packages/current_briefing.pdf

70MPH winds are common in storms here and no one cares. :(
 
Evo said:
The storm russ is referring to is considered a Nor'easter.

http://www.erh.noaa.gov/phi/briefing/packages/current_briefing.pdf
NHC said:
Hurricane Sandy...
Gale said:
A Nor'easter is basically that [a winter hurricane]. Wicked bad snow storms that we get to look forward to every year. In fact, winter isn't really winter without one!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nor'easter
Gale's Wiki said:
Difference from tropical cyclones
Often, people mistake nor'easters for tropical cyclones and do not differentiate between the two weather systems. Nor'easters differ from tropical cyclones in that nor'easters are cold-core low-pressure systems, meaning that they thrive on cold air. Tropical cyclones are warm-core low-pressure systems, which means they thrive on warm temperatures.
Fed by warm air or cold air?! Oh god, it can't be stopped!
 
Prepare for a long electrical outage, maybe get or arrange to rent a generator (do it now or no amount of money can get you one once the power goes out. If you have a fireplace, stock up on wood and get a few bricks, place a grill over them, even an oven shelf will do and you can cook in the fireplace. Oh, you might have gas, which means it may not even be an issue. Fill you car's gas tank up and make sure you have a car adaptor for your cell phone. Get lots of candles and mirrors. Placing candles on mirrors and in front of them really brightens a room.

Or do what I did during the last blizzard, stay at a hotel.
 
  • #10
Well - I'm on the bad side of that storm. :rolleyes:

Either we'll get a lot of snow followed by rain, or we get a lot of rain. Either way, we get significant flooding.

As long as we have electricity, we'll stay dry. Otherwise, my basement will become an indoor pool.
 
  • #11
Evo said:
Prepare for a long electrical outage, maybe get or arrange to rent a generator (do it now or no amount of money can get you one once the power goes out. If you have a fireplace, stock up on wood and get a few bricks, place a grill over them, even an oven shelf will do and you can cook in the fireplace. Oh, you might have gas, which means it may not even be an issue. Fill you car's gas tank up and make sure you have a car adaptor for your cell phone. Get lots of candles and mirrors. Placing candles on mirrors and in front of them really brightens a room.

Or do what I did during the last blizzard, stay at a hotel.

This will me my first storm in NYC. I'm not really sure how city folk prepare. Does the power ever go out here? I'm more used to the sort of preparations Evo's described. How am I supposed to stay warm without my space heater!?
 
  • #12
Gale said:
This will me my first storm in NYC. I'm not really sure how city folk prepare. Does the power ever go out here? I'm more used to the sort of preparations Evo's described. How am I supposed to stay warm without my space heater!?
Luckily, since it's only October, the weather won't be that cold. You'd be amazed at how much heat candles give off. During one outage in winter, I moved the girls and I into the smallest room, burning every candle I had (dozens), they raised the temp a few degrees, enough to make it comfortable.
 
  • #13
Putting on few extra layers of clothes always works.
 
  • #14
Evo said:
Luckily, since it's only October, the weather won't be that cold. You'd be amazed at how much heat candles give off. During one outage in winter, I moved the girls and I into the smallest room, burning every candle I had (dozens), they raised the temp a few degrees, enough to make it comfortable.

Haha. That actually sounds sort of awesome. But you're right, it shouldn't be too bad right now. I am a little nervous for future storms, I haven't lived in a state that had a winter in years... I'm going to be a miserable kitten.
 
  • #15
Gale said:
This will me my first storm in NYC. I'm not really sure how city folk prepare. Does the power ever go out here? I'm more used to the sort of preparations Evo's described. How am I supposed to stay warm without my space heater!?
The power is usually stable in NYC. I'm in a more rural area, and I've had power go out at home during the winter. The temperature went down to about 35 F in the colder parts of the house.

Others in more rural ares have had power out for days or weeks following severe icestorms - not to mention flooding, which in one case destroyed several hundred homes.

I'd prefer two or three feet of snow (with a slow thaw) as compared to 10 or 12+ inches of rain.
 
  • #16
It appears the pic I linked in the OP is dynamic, updating with the latest projected track every few hours. For reference, all projections are archived here: http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/refresh/graphics_at3+shtml/084338.shtml?gm_track#contents

The track was revised overnight to be slightly south of where it was projected last night, which is good because last night the center was projected to pass slightly north of me.
 
  • #17
russ_watters said:
The track was revised overnight to be slightly south of where it was projected last night, which is good because last night the center was projected to pass slightly north of me.
You might want to revise your "which is good". Passing to the north of you would have put you on the clean side of the hurricane. Now you'll be on the dirty side of the storm.

Good luck, and be safe.
 
  • #18
Evo said:
The storm russ is referring to is considered a Nor'easter.
It's a hurricane right now. It will morph into a hurricane+Nor'easter, the just a Nor'easter.

This has all the makings of a perfect storm: Hurricane, plus Nor'easter, plus a full moon for perfectly bad surge tide, plus perfectly bad steering currents from a Canadian high to the north, plus perfectly bad steering currents from a strong dip in the jet stream in the midwest, plus a track that at least right now takes the storm smack into New York City. That's where the two best hurricane models, the GFS and the UKMET, take the storm as of 6AM Eastern time today.
 
  • #19
Sandy now has a new unofficial name... [eerie music]... Frankenstorm!
 
  • #20
There's one huge difference between the 1991 perfect storm and this Frankenstorm. That difference: The 1991 storm, bad as it was, never made landfall.
 
  • #21
Oi, best of luck with sitting this storm out! I'm so glad that tornados or superstorms are not part of my weather system..
 
  • #23
Russ, are you in danger of flooding? If so, you might want to get a small portable sump pump. I had to get one for my last house because the built in sump could not handle the amount of water the basement would take on. It can be used in any part of the house. They are small, light and easily moved, they just sit on the floor.
 
  • #24
Can't say I have any good advice (that is, I can always play smart aleck and tell you to buy an inflated mattress - it should keep you dry in the night even if the room is flooded), I just hope it won't be as disastrous as it can be. Good luck to you (and all those on the storm path).
 
  • #25
I'm in northern Virginia. I went to the grocery store for a normal stop today and it seemed that everyone was talking about it. However, I've talked to a few people who didn't even know that it was coming. It's predicted to go just north of here but, we're still expecting to get at least 5 inches of rain, 50+ mph winds and gusts in the 70s. Should be an interesting week.
 
  • #26
The models are still all over the map with regard to where this beast will make that sharp left turn to the west, and hence where it will make landfall. Some of the models have it turning post-tropical and turning northeast (the GFS has it doing a loop-de-loop, hitting NYC twice!) to join the cold front, so a true Nor'easter. Others have it making landfall farther south where it will get a nice last minute kick of energy from the Gulf Stream, making it punch through the cold front and turning northeast well inland.Is this the October surprise for this election?
 
  • #27
D H said:
The models are still all over the map with regard to where this beast will make that sharp left turn to the west, and hence where it will make landfall. Some of the models have it turning post-tropical and turning northeast (the GFS has it doing a loop-de-loop, hitting NYC twice!)...

If we get hit twice...

On the bright side, at least school is already talking about cancelling classes.

Ever since moving to New York I've had a mild paranoia that something like "The Day After Tomorrow" was going to happen while I lived here. Big cities are always have really horrible things happen to them in movies... especially New York.
 
  • #28
Gale said:
Ever since moving to New York I've had a mild paranoia that something like "The Day After Tomorrow" was going to happen while I lived here. Big cities are always have really horrible things happen to them in movies... especially New York.
At least you're not in Tokyo, a city well-known to be the most explosive substance on Earth.
 
  • #29
Sandy's landfall is predicted to be somewhere in the People's Democratic Republic of Northern South Jersey on Tuesday around 8 a.m. Irene flooded out our police station and they just got done restoring it.
 
  • #30
Monique said:
Oi, best of luck with sitting this storm out! I'm so glad that tornados or superstorms are not part of my weather system..
It's hard to figure out what might happen. Every summer, now, we get supercells that spawn twisters. The hurricanes are the worst, though. Heavy rains saturate the soil, and the heavy winds topple trees. This time of year is especially bad, since many trees still have most of their leaves.
 

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