Gravitational waves analogous to photons and EM radiation?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion explores the analogy between gravitons and gravitational waves with photons and electromagnetic (EM) radiation. It delves into the implications of gravitational effects on EM radiation and the conceptual understanding of spacetime curvature.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that there is an analogy between gravitons and gravitational waves and photons and EM radiation, noting differences in the dominance of higher order multipole terms in gravitational waves.
  • One participant questions whether gravity could slow down EM radiation, given that it bends it, suggesting a need for further exploration of gravitational effects on EM radiation.
  • Another participant discusses the global effects of spacetime curvature on EM radiation, emphasizing that it travels at the speed of light only relative to local inertial observers.
  • Several participants challenge the notion of spacetime being "nothing," questioning the meaning of "curvature" and whether it is merely a figure of speech, while asserting that curvature has real, observable consequences.
  • One participant argues that the concept of spacetime as a mathematical object does not necessarily imply it is "something," emphasizing the subjective nature of definitions surrounding "nothing" and "something."

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of spacetime and its curvature, with no consensus reached on whether spacetime can be considered "something" or "nothing." The analogy between gravitational and electromagnetic phenomena is also debated, indicating multiple competing perspectives.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about the definitions of "nothing" and "something," as well as the implications of spacetime curvature, which remain unresolved. The relationship between gravitational waves and EM radiation is also not fully settled.

keepit
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Are gravitons and gravitational waves analogous to photons and EM radiation?
 
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In a sense yes. Keep in mind that gravitational waves are dominated by higher order multipole terms than electromagnetic waves are.
 
Since gravity bends EM radiation, why would it not also slow down EM radiation?
 
All kinds of weird effects can happen to EM radiation on a global scale due to curvature of space-time. It only travels at ##c## relative to inertial observers on a local scale.
 
Not to be argumentative or semantic but if spacetime can curve how can it be nothing.
Is "curvature" just a figure of speech?
 
keepit said:
Not to be argumentative or semantic but if spacetime can curve how can it be nothing.
Is "curvature" just a figure of speech?

The curvature is most certainly not a figure of speech - it's real.

You can detect curvature by looking for things like parallel lines that intersect (if I draw two parallel lines at the equator and pointing due north they'll intersect at the north pole) and triangles whose interior angles don't add to 180 degrees.

It's something of a jump to conclude that the presence of these curvature effects means that spacetime has to be "something" instead of "nothing". All we really have is a mathematical object (the "metric tensor") that tells us the distance between two nearby points; large-scale effects like the intersecting or not of parallel lines are derived from the metric. Some metrics correspond to flat manifolds and others to curved ones; neither tell us much about whether there's something there to curve.
 
keepit said:
Not to be argumentative or semantic but if spacetime can curve how can it be nothing.
Is "curvature" just a figure of speech?

This is highly dependent on what "nothing" means.

Consider that we cannot detect spacetime, we cannot measure it, cannot touch it, etc. We can only detect and interact with things within spacetime, which is why its called the "framework" that everything sits within. If you want to go ahead and say that spacetime is "something", then feel free. Just realize that your definition of "nothing" and "something" may be different than someone else's. In the end whether you call it nothing or not changes, well, nothing. It's just arguing over definitions.
 

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