Does space (distance) between two bodies contract according to SR?

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Trojan666ru
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    bodies Space Sr
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the concept of length contraction in special relativity (SR) and whether the distance between two bodies, such as a spaceship and a star, contracts when traveling at relativistic speeds. Participants explore the implications of length contraction on measurements of distance and time in different reference frames.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the distance between the spaceship and the star does undergo length contraction when traveling at 90% the speed of light, citing examples and analogies involving rulers.
  • Others argue that only physical bodies undergo length contraction, suggesting that the distance itself does not shrink, and that this distinction is crucial for understanding the effects of relativistic travel.
  • A participant questions how length contraction affects the arrival time of an object moving towards them, noting that calculations yield different results depending on the reference frame used.
  • It is mentioned that in the frame where the observer is at rest, there is no length contraction, while in the moving frame, the distance appears contracted, but time dilation also plays a role in the perceived arrival time.
  • Another participant emphasizes that time dilation and length contraction are relative effects, and that different observers may have differing measurements of time and distance due to their relative motion.
  • One participant challenges another to clarify their understanding of the concepts without relying on external sources, indicating a desire for independent reasoning in the discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether distance itself contracts in the context of special relativity, leading to an unresolved debate. There is no consensus on the interpretation of length contraction as it relates to distances between bodies.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about reference frames and the effects of relativistic speeds, but these assumptions are not universally agreed upon. The implications of time dilation and length contraction are also intertwined, complicating the analysis.

Trojan666ru
Messages
104
Reaction score
0
Suppose if travel towards the nearest star (alpha centauri) 4 light years away at 90% the speed of light does the distance between my spaceship and the star undergo length contraction?
but i think in Wikipedia it its written as the distance undergo length contraction
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twin_paradox
read the "Specific example" topic in it
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Trojan666ru said:
Suppose if travel towards the nearest star (alpha centauri) 4 light years away at 90% the speed of light does the distance between my spaceship and the star undergo length contraction?
but i think in Wikipedia it its written as the distance undergo length contraction
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twin_paradox
read the "Specific example" topic in it

Yes, distance length contracts. Lay down a set of rulers end to end in a line. Remove every other ruler. Now from the point of view of an observer moving along the line, the gaps between the rulers length contract to the same extent as the rulers themselves.
 
if i haven't included the Wikipedia link u should have said "no" the distance won't shrink, only physical bodies undergo length contraction"
 
Then if an object moving towards me at 90% speed of light light from a distance of 1hr light c. Without length contraction i calculate it to be arriving at 1hr and 6 minutes on my clock, so when i include length contraction will it arrive more early?
 
Trojan666ru said:
Then if an object moving towards me at 90% speed of light light from a distance of 1hr light c. Without length contraction i calculate it to be arriving at 1hr and 6 minutes on my clock, so when i include length contraction will it arrive more early?

No, not if you use a frame in which you are at rest. Then there is no length contraction.

If you used the frame in which you are moving and the object is at rest, the distance would be length contracted, so the object would indeed arrive earlier than that (or rather you would arrive at the object earlier), but your clocks would also be running slow due to time dilation. The two effects cancel and so your clocks would read 1 hour and 6 minutes.
 
Trojan666ru said:
Then if an object moving towards me at 90% speed of light light from a distance of 1hr light c. Without length contraction i calculate it to be arriving at 1hr and 6 minutes on my clock, so when i include length contraction will it arrive more early?

You measure the distance to be 1 light hour and the time of travel to be ≈ 1 hour 6 minutes.

They measure the distance to be ≈ 26 light minutes and the time of travel to be ≈ 29 minutes.

You both calculate the velocity using your own measurements of distance and time to be 0.9c.
 
Hey Trojan 666...the trick is this...time dilation and length contraction is due to relative motion...in special relativity, flat spacetime [no gravity].

So anything traveling in your frame, with you, is 'stationary' relative to you: that means a clock you carry, for example, always ticks at it's same fixed rate [called proper time] and you do not contract in size along the direction of motion. But the other outside observer, in motion relative to you, sees your clock slow and your size diminish along the direction of motion.

So when you move really fast on your way to Alpha Centauri, that distance is in another reference frame...right??...your local wrist watch time ticks along as usual but the distance you travel is reduced. From an observer on Alpha Centauri, the distance remains unchanged [since it is in the static frame of that observer] but she sees your clock ticking more slowly...when you meet up and compare elapsed times, voila they don't agree...she thinks your elapsed local time is less than her local time. YOU have aged less than she.

You each 'disagree' on the elapsed time and distance traveled...and you are both right.
Different observers resolve these 'paradoxes' via Lorentz transforms which explain the differences.
 
Trojan666:

if i haven't included the Wikipedia link u should have said "no" the distance won't shrink, only physical bodies undergo length contraction"

Can you now answer this correctly on your own??
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
2K
  • · Replies 32 ·
2
Replies
32
Views
3K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 71 ·
3
Replies
71
Views
8K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
3K