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11 year old kills fathers girlfriend 8 months pregnant

  1. Feb 22, 2009 #1
    An 11 year old in PA seems to have shotgunned to death his fathers 26 year old pregnant girlfriend. It's too bad we live in a free secret society. I would like to know what this kids game collection looks like and what movies he has been watching. Grand Theft Auto anyone? We live in a free society. Which unfortunately means the freedom to keep things secret that shouldn't be secret. We will probably never know what video games this kid plays and I think it's relevant. We will never know what movies he was allowed to watch either. And when he is punished his story will go away so that there won't be an lessons for other kids, the media will instead find a Columbine headline for weeks and give them something else to emulate, all in the name of profit while our society crumbles.

    But since he owned his own shotgun I have a pretty good idea. I think that he is a victim of our societies madness of treating children like they are adults. Our language has the word children for a reason. To distinguish them from adults. Yet we allow our society to treat them like adults. They have phones, they are exposed to violence, they wear makeup, they have tatoos, they have piercings, they have sex, they have children, they are the target of relentless ad campaigns, they have the pandering sex channel known as MTV and all of this is encouraged by our society and it's worship of money. None of these things were available, allowed or encouraged when I was a teen. They were reserved for adults. It gave us something to look forward too, a rite of passage that practically doesn't exist anymore. I seem to be one of the only people who thinks we are making a mistake in the way we are bringing up our children. They have nothing to look forward to because they have virtually everything that adults have except the right to drive. It's no wonder depression and suicide rates have gone up.

    I am sure most people will think I am crazy.
  2. jcsd
  3. Feb 22, 2009 #2


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    Until two days ago, I didn't know they actually made guns for kids (and I'm not talking about toy guns).

    Maybe we should start making alcohol and cigarettes for toddlers ... make it easier for them to kill themselves before we make it easier for them to kill others?
  4. Feb 22, 2009 #3
    Good catch, I forgot alcohol and cigarettes. Yeah, for toddlers, since the youngest teenagers are already smoking and drinking.

    They didn't have guns for kids when I was a kid that I know of. We had to use adult guns under adult supervision and it was a once in a while privilege that only came more often when we were big enough and old enough to handle them. Back then adults had the crazy idea that some things were for adults only. As a kid I didn't think it was fair and I couldn't wait to get old enough to have my own. But back then it didn't matter what I thought BECAUSE I WAS A KID.
  5. Feb 22, 2009 #4


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    I find the concept of 'guns for kids', designed such that they need not be registered a bit puzzling and distressing. If something can project a projectile at sufficient kinetic energy to be fatal to a person, then perhaps there needs to be some control on it. On the other other hand, the kid could have used a baseball bat or cricket bat, or kitchen knife, or gasoline, or . . . .

    Clearly the child had (has) a problem based on the fact that he committed murder.

    I have to wonder what was going on with that family that the boy felt compelled to eliminate his father's girlfriend. Was the motivating factor jealousy, or perhaps anger at the woman who replaced his mother, or was there abuse of the boy on the part of the father or girlfriend?
  6. Feb 22, 2009 #5
    I don't care if my 10-year old boy plays hours and hours of GTA (ok, maybe not too much). If he turns 15 and starts smoking and drinking, well, I cannot stop him. I did that too.

    But I think anyone can see that there is a difference between poor/questionable parenting and 11 year-old having access to a shotgun.
  7. Feb 22, 2009 #6


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    It turns out he was fond of watching romantic comedies.* This is a serious issue; we need to start a campaign to ban romantic comedies! Won't somebody please think of the children!

    *: This fact is made up. Any similarities to real facts is unintentional
  8. Feb 22, 2009 #7


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    maybe he had been to Sunday school?

    And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?
    Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

    Numbers 31:17-18
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2009
  9. Feb 22, 2009 #8
    Here in western PA, guns are as much a part of the culture as religion (Remember Obama's remark? He wasn't wrong, just careless.). In my area, perhaps 50 miles from Wampum, about 10% of adults have concealed carry permits. Hunting is a family activity and an 11 year can obtain a junior licence and a 12 year old a regular one. I'd guess that perhaps 30-50% of the population hunt and that at least 80% of homes have a gun in them. During the fall campaign, one of the talking head TV guys commented that, "In western Pennsylvania, even liberals carry guns." I'm not defending that culture, and I'm not blind to the dangers of allowing kids to have guns. But, before condemning that father, you must know that perhaps a hundred thousand kids in this area have their own gun and many more have access. That is the community standard.
  10. Feb 22, 2009 #9
    I did read that romantic comedies were not good for your mental well-being. Apparently it can cause depression.
  11. Feb 22, 2009 #10


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    But it does lead to a very healthy desire to kill Hugh Grant/Tom Hanks
  12. Feb 22, 2009 #11
    My point wasn't about having guns. I had access to guns at any time when I was a kid too. I was eleven in 62, how many 11 year olds do you think committed murder that year? Our society has changed and kids have changed. My point is neither is for the better. But I don't expect anyone to see the forest, if we could society wouldn't have changed.
  13. Feb 22, 2009 #12
    There are a few things to consider regarding the perceived degradation of society. In 1962, the population of the United States was approximately 180 million. Today it is over 300 million. More people, more times something like this will happen, even if the percentage of incidents is the same. Another thing to consider is the increased media coverage in general. Society surly has its problems, but this seems more like a parenting problem, not a video games/movies problem. There are always going to be some people who are sh*** parents and they are going to raise sh*** kids. I don't think there's ever been a point in human history in which this hasn't been true. But, we shouldn't start encouraging legislation just because a few people suck.

    Another thing to consider is that the current generation was raised by your generation. Your generation is also generally responsible for creating the violent movies, mtv, and evil video games. :yuck: Thanks :biggrin::devil:
  14. Feb 22, 2009 #13


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    I think you are very sane, on the contrary.

    But if you aks me what is crazy, well....some people compare watching violent movies to reading the Bible or watching romantic comedies....
  15. Feb 22, 2009 #14
    As far as the romantic comedies, I think that was just another way to say that correlation does not imply causation. I played plenty of violent video games as a kid, and now I'm a member of PF. Clearly, playing violent video games in my youth must have fostered my interest in physics. :tongue2:

    And for the Bible verses, well lets face it, there's some pretty screwed up stuff in the Old Testament. If read literally, violence in the Bible can far exceed anything Hollywood can come up with. But if you cherry-pick I guess one might be ok. :uhh:
  16. Feb 23, 2009 #15
    what are the odds of a child shooting someone in malice with a legally-owned gun versus a child shooting someone in malice with a gun they didn't obtain legally? we don't want to overreact here and needlessly punish legal child gun-owners. are they not normally a responsible demographic?
  17. Feb 23, 2009 #16
    Good comments, I agree. It's the same kind of people that are making violent movies today as when I was a kid. The difference is that they didn't show violence the same way back then. If you look at old B&W movies most of the time when someone was shot the graphic violence was dialed down to low, no bullet holes, no blood. This was because FX was tougher to do back then and there was also unwritten rules as to what you could and couldn't show. The difference now is that constant pushing of the envelope has dialed the graphic violence up to full notch and the envelope is pushed to the limit at every opportunity. This still doesn't explain everything though. It IS the parenting, the permissiveness that allows children to be exposed to this and other things.

    In 68 or 69 I went to a drive-in to see night of the living dead when it first came out. It was scarier and graphic beyond anything I had seen before. It expanded the envelope quite a bit. I think it was the father of modern horror flicks. Now it isn't even scary or particularly graphic.

    And as far as numbers go, I don't think you will find too many child killers at all in the whole century before 1970 so it isn't just more now because there is more people. Society has changed.
  18. May 2, 2009 #17
    yes i bought my daughter a gun designed for a child ... short stock and smaller hand grip..
    this was many years ago
    now her daughter can shoot it also and will tell you gun control is holding steady and breathing softly.. she is in first grade..
    you should see the pink Here Kitty AR15 ! cute...

    that gun was only a tool used by a young delinquent..
    many tools can be used to kill ...
    most use cars today not guns
    should we band cars?
    i like horses still...
    it is in the mind of the young killer we need to look...
    and those responsible for them.. parents
  19. Jun 14, 2009 #18
    That's what the religions and spirituality are for...to impart the best of the best to the offspring's assets..
    If parents do really realize this then, they'd first understand their child and act accordingly.whatever the attitude the child has got, for a specific length of time, most of it has the contribution from the child's mother and father.In this case for example, the father didn't really tried to know what and how the child's feelings are affected after his wife's death.So, that would have created a heavy impact over the child probably. The real life though sometimes(most of the times) unacceptable and disregarding, the moral truths and spiritual optimism would really fetch the beacon of hope and lead us to ecstasy.
    I finally point out the parent's recklessness towards his child for not being able to see what is going in his mind. If that would really have happened then he wouldn't have had any girl friend, provided if the child is not interested.
    Child's growth is mostly dependent on parents care..
  20. Jun 15, 2009 #19


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    I think they are already getting started on that.

    Last month I decided to splurge and buy my favorite niece a Porsche Boxster for her birthday. Imagine my disappointment when I later heard from her mom that they had to return the car because the government apparently doesn't issue driving licenses to eight-year-olds.

    <perhaps I should borrow mgb_phys' signature for a day or two>
  21. Jun 15, 2009 #20

    Ivan Seeking

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    Many kids are involved in competitive shooting. This includes those in preparation for olympic competition.

    I've had my own guns since age 12. Thanks to the NRA gun course and my father's respect for guns, I was always very responsible about their use. However, when I got a wrist rocket [a high-power sling shot made from surgical tubing] I did things that were so dangerous that it still embarrasses me to talk about it. I am very lucky that no one ever got killed or injured. So my position is that we should ban surgical tubing.
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2009
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