1st Law of Thermodynamics?

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    Law Thermodynamics
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the definitions and conventions related to exothermic and endothermic reactions in the context of the first law of thermodynamics. Participants explore the implications of heat transfer and the sign conventions used in thermodynamic equations.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants state that exothermic reactions are defined as those with a positive heat of reaction, while endothermic reactions have a negative heat of reaction.
  • Others argue that the sign of heat transfer (Q) depends on the reference frame chosen, suggesting that if heat absorbed by the system is considered positive, then exothermic reactions would have a negative heat of reaction.
  • A participant questions the convention, asserting that if the system produces heat, it should be considered negative because it is lost, leading to confusion about how to answer exam questions regarding the sign of heat in exothermic reactions.
  • Another participant emphasizes that it is a convention that exothermic reactions have a negative ΔH, which is widely accepted and should be stated in assessments.
  • One participant explains that for an exothermic reaction, heat must be removed to maintain the system's initial temperature, while for an endothermic reaction, heat must be added.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the conventions surrounding the signs of heat in exothermic and endothermic reactions. There is no consensus on the interpretation of these conventions or their implications for answering exam questions.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the dependence on conventions in thermodynamics and the potential for confusion regarding the interpretation of heat transfer signs. There are unresolved aspects concerning how these conventions apply in different contexts.

Tsunnnami
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So it is stated that exothermic reactions are the ones where the heat of reaction is positive and endothermic reactions are the ones where the heat of reaction is negative.

My question is: why is this so, when in the 1st law of thermodynamics, where
ΔU=Q+W it is stated that Q is positive if the system absorbs heat from the environment and Q is negative if the system releases heat to the environment ?
 
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Tsunnnami said:
So it is stated that exothermic reactions are the ones where the heat of reaction is positive and endothermic reactions are the ones where the heat of reaction is negative.

It depends on the reference you choose. If you consider the heat absorbed by the system to be positive then the exothermic reactions are the one where the heat of reaction is negative . Otherwise if you consider the heat produced by the system to be positive the exothermic reaction have positive heat of reaction.
 
dRic2 said:
It depends on the reference you choose. If you consider the heat absorbed by the system to be positive then the exothermic reactions are the one where the heat of reaction is negative . Otherwise if you consider the heat produced by the system to be positive the exothermic reaction have positive heat of reaction.
I thought it's not a matter of considering, I thought that it's a convention that if the system produces heat, then heat is negative, because it's lost.

So if we get an exam question, such as "Is heat negative or positive in an exothermic reaction" , then what would the answer be ?
 
Tsunnnami said:
I thought that it's a convention that if the system produces heat, then heat is negative, because it's lost.

It is a convention, you said yourself. The importance thing is to say that the heat is lost. The sing should be indifferent (for you) as long as it is coherent with your calculation.

By the way, worldwide, exothermic reaction have negative ##\Delta H## of reaction (in a test I would say so) for the reason you said, because that's the convention most used.
 
The reaction being exothermic means that heat has to be removed from the system in order to hold the temperature of the system constant at its initial value. The reaction being endothermic means that heat has to be added to the system to hold the temperature of the system constant at its initial value.
 

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