News 9th Grader Arrested for Bringing Homemade Clock to School

AI Thread Summary
Ahmed Mohamed, a 14-year-old student from Irving, Texas, was arrested after bringing a homemade clock to school, which teachers mistakenly identified as a bomb. Despite his insistence that it was merely a clock, police detained him and considered charging him with making a hoax bomb. The incident sparked widespread outrage, with many arguing that Ahmed's treatment was influenced by racial and religious bias, as he is Muslim. Critics highlighted the failure of school officials to recognize the device's harmless nature and the overreaction of law enforcement. Ahmed's experience led to an online petition calling for apologies from school and police officials, and he received an invitation from President Obama to visit the White House, emphasizing the need to inspire young inventors. The discussion also touched on broader themes of societal fear surrounding innovation and the consequences of zero-tolerance policies in schools, with participants expressing concern over the chilling effect such incidents may have on young inventors and the perception of science in educational settings.
  • #51
lisab said:
I have a hobby that I love, but I've been neglecting it for several years now: when I experience or hear of an absurd or funny situation, a cartoon often pops into my head. I like to draw these in Paint because I like the primitive way they come out.

While discussing this absurd case, this picture popped into my head - so I drew it:

JsemHyu.png


Look - I know we have PFers who live in Texas, or used to live in Texas, or who will live in Texas in the future - please don't take this too seriously. It is not intended to cause offense, but rather just a giggle. Hugs to all of you, or I should say hugs to y'all. The struggle is real.

To be honest, I'm surprised that "embarrassment" was spelled correctly. :3 As for the members who live in Texas: they are most likely intelligent. I'm sure that those people look at their state right now with equal discontentment.
 
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  • #52
Rio Larsen said:
I was citing low SAT scores to suggest academic failure within Texas.
Yes, I know, and that may be the cause or it may be a post hoc rationalization. The cause is not "self-explanatory"
 
  • #53
Rio Larsen said:
To be honest, I'm surprised that "embarrassment" was spelled correctly. :3

I realize I'm a crappy speller :wink:, but I try not to be a lazy one. Cheers.
 
  • #55
This story just keeps getting better.
The Bizarre Backstory Behind #IStandWithAhmed’s 2-Time Sudanese Presidential Candidate Father [okayafrica]
SEPTEMBER 16, 2015
...
Comments
...Wait, are you saying the son may have been "nudged" by his dad to set off this publicity firestorm?,,,

I think this is plausible. As DEvens pointed out, this happens every day across the nation, and nobody hears about it. Why is this incident so special?

Might this be what Trevor Noah was talking about the other day?
...we live in a world of faux outrage. It’s hashtag this, hashtag that. There are people who jump onto trends before they even know what the trend is about. People want to be part of the good, but they don’t want to put the work in, so they think, “Can’t I just say that I agree?” Then you have an artificial inflation of what the problem is. All of the sudden you get all of these big scandals, but they’re not big, because everyone is on the periphery of the argument.
...

I'd like to read the police interview. Ahmed reminds me of someone I knew personally, who liked to play "social prankster" games. Time will hopefully tell which hashtag wins. #IStandWithAhmed or #AhmedsPlayingUs*

*I just made that up.
 
  • #56
Wow have times changed.

In my high school electronics class it was required that every kid build some electronic project.
Our class was given some old army surplus stuff from Cape Canaveral to pillage for parts. I was interested in audio, built a hifi amplifier with push-pull 6AQ5 tubes... but that's another story

One of those .army surplus panels had a placard with wording that was just irresistible to a 14 yr old kid.
I put it on an aluminum box, installed Neon lamp indicators above each legend on the placard , and just for effect added a telescoping antenna that did nothing.
A 90 volt radio " B "battery made the neon lamps flash (this was 1961, before LED's).

So what i had was a curious looking aluminum box with an antenna and flashing lights above these words :
"Warhead Arming OK"
"Warhead Vacuum OK"
"Arm and Fuse Continuity OK" ,
and a couple other ominous sounding phrases.
I told anybody who asked it was the target for my guided missile.

Teacher liked it so well he immediately tucked it under his arm and carried it directly to teacher's lounge where it made quite a splash. Even my English teacher remarked next day she thought it was "cool".

I guess that's why we're allotted just threescore and ten - the world changes more than we can stand.

Have Fun Ahmed. "Ni Illegitimus Non Carborundumus..."
 
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  • #58
Ahmed Mohammed's family offers pizza to crowd of waiting media at his home

xLfXAh6.jpg


VMuFdMw.jpg


0YIb3dW.jpg
 
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  • #60
WWGD said:
EDIT
There are no strained , difficult relations with white Christians, who are not a minority in this country.. Of course this does not mean they should be mistreated, but context matters. And remember you are dealing with a 14 yr old. Could have been addressed more tactfully, I think that is largely what it comes down to.
Again, if the kid intended to blow up the place, would he have shown it to everyone?

I think I was wrong here, any child who had to go through something like this should get the same treatment.
 
  • #61
WWGD said:
EDIT
There are no strained , difficult relations with white Christians, who are not a minority in this country.. Of course this does not mean they should be mistreated, but context matters. And remember you are dealing with a 14 yr old. Could have been addressed more tactfully, I think that is largely what it comes down to.
Again, if the kid intended to blow up the place, would he have shown it to everyone?

So what you are saying is, no, you would not treat the white Christian sprog the same. You would treat him as "context." That is, you'd treat him as a member of a tribe. Right. Gotcha. Racism is fine as long as it's not directed at the Officially Sad.

And I don't know what country you live in. But I sure have seen some angry, bordering-on-psychotic-but-not-sure-from-which-side xtians of late.

If the kid intended to create a fuss, be the centre of attention, maybe scare a bunch of people? Who would he have shown it to then? And the cops can read his mind exactly how?
 
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  • #62
rootone said:
Even the dumbest ought to be able to figure out that a bomb requires some kind of explosive.
Electronic circuits are not explosives and a timing device isn't even necessary to produce a crude bomb.

Hmm... And how big is 100 grams of, say, home-made TNT? Or a quarter liter of gasoline for that.

In public school, grade 8, we had a lovely demo of a dust explosion. A half teaspoon of flour managed to explode with enough force that a paint can lid made a nice impact mark on the ceiling. Where we quickly noticed the pre-existing impact marks from previous years of this same demo. Of course, being a farm kid, I already knew about dust explosions. It was a famous story about how flour mills would occasionally just disappear. Loudly.
 
  • #63
DaleSpam said:
The Irving Tx Police Department does not have a bomb squad. There was nobody qualified to make that determination.

Well then they should've taken every possible precaution and just evacuate the school, no?
This would be a dream for people intended to attack the police.
Just make a bomb looking like a portable radio, once they are transporting to the station detonate it and boom.

The right response would've been to find out who to turn to.
I suppose the engineering teacher would've volunteered if they asked.

In general I think a lot of publicity is giving to something that should be a 10 minute thing.
I understand the white house as this can affect the image of science throughout the country and can send a powerful message.
The other invitations (NASA, MIT, ...) are merely a publicity stunt if you ask me.
In fact I believe interested kids should have more chances to visit such institutes. Not only those that make the news.

jim hardy said:
Wow have times changed.

Even now its a cool story :-)
But indeed, times are different. Not only in schools but kids in general are protected way too much. (this is my opinion!)
A sports coach can't yell at a teenager without parents nearly suing him.
Teachers can't give bad grades or give detention because "my child is an angel".
Again that's what I see/hear over here on a regular basis. Before it didn't happen.
 
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  • #64
The look on the black cop's face: "Are these white people serious?"
 
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  • #65
JorisL said:
Well then they should've taken every possible precaution and just evacuate the school, no?
This would be a dream for people intended to attack the police.
Just make a bomb looking like a portable radio, once they are transporting to the station detonate it and boom.

The right response would've been to find out who to turn to.
I suppose the engineering teacher would've volunteered if they asked.
This is another reason why I'm very suspicious of the whole situation.

Irving Police Chief Larry Boyd discusses MacArthur High freshman Ahmed Mohamed's arrest
Published on Sep 16, 2015​

t = 24 seconds
"School resource officers questioned the student about his intentions, and the reason why he brought the device to the school. The student would only say that it was a clock, and was not forthcoming, at that time, with any other details..."

Why did Ahmed not mention the engineering teacher?
In general I think a lot of publicity is giving to something that should be a 10 minute thing.
I understand the white house as this can affect the image of science throughout the country and can send a powerful message.
The other invitations (NASA, MIT, ...) are merely a publicity stunt if you ask me.
In fact I believe interested kids should have more chances to visit such institutes. Not only those that make the news.
Even now its a cool story :-)
But indeed, times are different. Not only in schools but kids in general are protected way too much. (this is my opinion!)
A sports coach can't yell at a teenager without parents nearly suing him.
Teachers can't give bad grades or give detention because "my child is an angel".
Again that's what I see/hear over here on a regular basis. Before it didn't happen.
And why was the clock's alarm system set to go off during English class?
Ahmed Mohamed swept up, 'hoax bomb' charges swept away as Irving teen's story floods social media
...
He showed it to his engineering teacher first thing Monday morning and didn’t get quite the reaction he’d hoped for.

“He was like, ‘That’s really nice,’” Ahmed said. “‘I would advise you not to show any other teachers.’”
...

This implies, IMHO, that the engineering teacher also thought it looked a little too "bombish".

As was stated by the Police Chief, they never said they thought it was a "bomb", but a "hoax bomb", which is apparently a crime in Texas.

I don't trust 14 year olds. I was one once, so I know what they are like.
And apparently, Old Jim was one once, also. He has the best stories!
 
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  • #66
Cha-Ching!

Bruce Fenton
18 hrs ·
Looks like we can offer more like $250,000 if Abmed(sic) wants to attend leading prep school Wilbraham Monson instead of Irving TX school. Please let his parents know. ‪#‎IstandwithAhmed‬

Bruce Fenton is apparently the executive director of "Bitcoin".
 
  • #67
OmCheeto said:
"School resource officers questioned the student about his intentions, and the reason why he brought the device to the school. The student would only say that it was a clock, and was not forthcoming, at that time, with any other details..."

The sign of a very smart kid.
Rule #1 if you are arrested or detained, give them the needed ID information and then SAY NOTHING ELSE (double important if you are innocent) until you have legal representation. (or your parents in this case)
 
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  • #68
Maybe the next step should be to require schools to have s
DEvens said:
So what you are saying is, no, you would not treat the white Christian sprog the same. You would treat him as "context." That is, you'd treat him as a member of a tribe. Right. Gotcha. Racism is fine as long as it's not directed at the Officially Sad.

And I don't know what country you live in. But I sure have seen some angry, bordering-on-psychotic-but-not-sure-from-which-side xtians of late.

If the kid intended to create a fuss, be the centre of attention, maybe scare a bunch of people? Who would he have shown it to then? And the cops can read his mind exactly how?

Please see my post after this one, I said I thought I was wrong about this. And, yes, many xtians are pissed. And, I would said if it was a publicity stunt, it is most likely that it came from the dad. And, yes, the pictures posted with the Pizza don't make him look good, but it may be a Sudanese custom of showing hospitality, but I don't know for sure.
 
  • #69
 
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  • #70
OmCheeto said:
Irving Police Chief Larry Boyd discusses MacArthur High freshman Ahmed Mohamed's arrest
Published on Sep 16, 2015​
t = 24 seconds
"School resource officers questioned the student about his intentions, and the reason why he brought the device to the school. The student would only say that it was a clock, and was not forthcoming, at that time, with any other details..."

@53 s - "Under Texas law, a person is guilty of possessing a 'hoax bomb' if he possesses a device that is intended to cause anyone to be alarmed or a reaction of any type of law enforcement officers."

The student indicated that he built a clock. However, the teacher and principal determined the device looked like a bomb. As far as I can tell, the student did not intend to cause an alarm or response from police. Rather the teacher appears to have gone wacko, then the principal through reason out the window and called police. (I'd like to hear the phone call from the principal to the police) From what I've heard so far, it appears that the police attempted to coerce the student into confessing to a 'hoax bomb'.

Why was Ahmed suspended for 3 days, especially after the police dropped the charges?!
 
  • #71
Next up, it's not hard to find old mechanical watches from the mid last century which contain minute amounts of radioactive material printed into the dial numbers, so you could read the watch in the dark.
Maybe the possession of one those is sufficient cause to suspect an attempt to build a nuke!
 
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  • #72
Greg Bernhardt said:
Ahmed invited to the White House. Great recovery Mr. President!

"Cool clock, Ahmed. Want to bring it to the White House?," @POTUS tweeted. "We should inspire more kids like you to like science. It's what makes America great."
Seems that Obama wants to make a prank to Secret Service. ;)
 
  • #73
Along the lines of Jim Hardy's "how times have changed" [ this was late 1960s ]...

In high school chemistry, somehow the teacher got wind of my interest in explosives. On the first day of chemistry he took me aside and told me not to try to make any explosives in class, he would make sure I couldn't. Hmm. Obvious challenge?. Near the end of the year, he overlooked something. We had halogen waters (chlorine water, bromine water, etc.) for experiments in halogen substitution. I figured that I could make an explosive ingredient in a nonstandard way via halogen substitution, and everything else needed could be made from always available reagents. I did so, and had the explosive as a dilute precipitate, in test tubes. I wanted a more convenient form to carry home so I was centrifuging the tubes. The centrifuge was not part of any experiments that day. He walks over. He asks what I'm doing, I tell him. He responds "excellent chemistry, I'll take those now."

That was it - no telling the principal, no telling even my parents.
 
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  • #74
We've told our children to be careful with what they bring to school (and airports, etc) and how they talk about things not to give even the appearance of evil. If one brings something that looks like a gun or drugs or other contraband to school, then one is likely to get unwanted disciplinary attention. Why would something that looks like a bomb be any different? I think most 14 year olds who are smart enough to experiment with electronics are also smart enough to figure out that there are certain configurations that might be construed as potentially dangerous.

At the same time, it's too bad that most teachers are not smart enough to distinguish between ordinary electronics and something that could really be a bomb. The hypersensitivity of law enforcement and teachers, combined with their ignorance probably allows the inventor to maintain plausible deniability. The inventor may have earned a trip to the White House, but having mentored students who also earned trips to the White House based on their scientific accomplishments, I can assure you that somone showing up at the White House door with that device would be in a lot more trouble than the young inventor who merely brought it to school.

Practical considerations dictate that consequences and response to perceived threats be of a nature that is not interpreted as blanket permission to continue activities that are likely to be perceived (or misperceived) as threats. Would schools, airports, or government buildings be able to function if students and citizens were given the green light to bring in homemade electronics in briefcase like containers?
 
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  • #75
OmCheeto said:
Hey! @Drakkith is from Texas!
Yes, that does explain a lot :smile:
 
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  • #76
I still have too many questions unanswered to make a decision on the matter.
I would still like to see what the engineering teacher's point of view is/was. Anyone have a link?

As a former postal type employee*, I was trained to look for "bombs" in the mail.
Ok, training might be a stretch. They made us look at the USPS web page, and provided poster, on "suspicious" items.

United States Postal Inspection Service
Mail Bombs
It is important to be alert for suspicious parcels, but keep in mind that a mail bomb is an extremely rare occurrence. To illustrate just how rare, Postal Inspectors have investigated an average of 16 mail bombs over the last few years. By contrast, each year, the Postal Service processed over 170 billion pieces of mail. That means during the last few years, the chances that a piece of mail actually contains a bomb average far less than one in 10 billion!
pos84.jpg
...
If you become suspicious of a mailing and are unable to verify the contents, observe the following safety precautions:
Poster 84, Suspicious Mail, tells employees what to do if they find a suspicious package:
  1. Don't open the article.
  2. Isolate the suspect parcel and evacuate the immediate area.
  3. Don't put it in water or a confined space, such as a desk drawer or cabinet.
  4. If possible, open windows in the immediate area to assist in venting potentially explosive gases.
  5. Don't worry about possible embarrassment if the item turns out to be innocent. Instead, contact the Postal Inspection Service and your local police department.

It's not clear to me whether or not the pencil box was opened to show the English teacher that there was nothing but a bunch of wires and circuit boards, which I would imagine even a lowly English teacher would recognize as not being a bomb.
But #1 on the list clearly states: Do not open it.

#5 on the list, is why I don't have a problem with the actions of anyone at the school, nor the police force.
Better to be embarrassed by misidentifying something, than dead.

Not sure if anyone has referenced the following yet, but I find it somewhat entertaining:

Like Ahmed Mohamed, Steve Wozniak Was Also Arrested for Building Something Cool in High School
9/17/2015
.
Apple co-founder Steve Wozniak was also arrested for what a high-school principal thought was a bomb after he heard it beeping, according to Walter Isaacson’s biography of Steve Jobs. What he heard was actually a metronome.

Here is the excerpt from the book:
In twelfth grade he built an electric metronome—one of those devises that keep time in music class—and realized it sounded like a bomb. So he took the labels off some of the big batteries, taped them together, and put it in a school locker; he rigged it to start ticking faster when the locker opened. Later that day he got called to the principal’s office. He thought it as because he had won, yet again, the school’s top math prize. Instead he was confronted by the police. The principal had been summoned when the device was found, bravely ran onto the football field clutching it to his chest, and pulled the wires off. Woz tried and failed to suppress his laughter. He actually got sent to the juvenile detention center, where he spent the night. It was a memorable experience. He taught the other prisoners how to disconnect the wires leading to the ceiling fans and connect them to the bars so people got shocked when touching them.
Wozniak posted on his Facebook page that Mohamed's story took him back to his high school days. In reply to some comments on his post, Wozniak called Mohamed a "modern day hero" to people like him.
"From the most creative people I meet in high tech, I'd suggest that slight misbehavior is an essential ingredient of creative thinking," he wrote.
...
Now, it is clear that Steve intended for his device to appear to be a bomb. But as has been mentioned, things have changed in the last 47 years. (This makes me feel kind of old for some reason.)
According to the internets, Steve was a senior in 1968, and was attending high school in Kilgore Texas.
Actually, the comments on Steve's Facebook page are quite entertaining also. Lots of high school type shenanigans!

PAllen said:
Along the lines of Jim Hardy's "how times have changed" [ this was late 1960s ]...
In high school chemistry, somehow the teacher got wind of my interest in explosives.
...
What is it with boys and blowing things up. I didn't start college until I was 24, having spent 6 years in the navy. And having been a "nuke", I was averse to things blowing up.
I vaguely remember in chemistry lab, being surrounded by a bunch of 18 year olds, who as soon as the TA left the room, someone would say; "Let's blow something up!"
:bugeye:

-----------------
* And yes, we did receive items in the mail intended to do harm to some of our staff.
[edit] One suspicious package had me call security. It turned out to be a dead fish. :oldconfused:
Another suspicious package, which I dealt with myself, having been promoted to "stupidvisor", turned out to be a broken, improperly packaged bottle of barbecue sauce.

ps. Sorry about all the edits. (4 in total, I think. :redface:)
Now 5!
 
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  • #77
OmCheeto said:
Now 5!

6...

Looking at the poster again, if you look closely, the third red box says; "Do not taste the suspicious looking item".

Do.not.lick.the.bomb.jpg

Not sure how many people are old enough to remember the old "Mikey" commercial, but there was one person, in the mail center, who, when we found a suspicious package, we would all say in unison; "Sally! Let's let Sally taste it! She'll taste anything!"

On one occasion, when we had a suspicious package, she went over, grabbed it, and started shaking it, accusing everyone else of being sissies, as we all crouched behind heavy objects.

ps. Sally is/was not her real name.
 
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  • #78
Dr. Courtney said:
Practical considerations dictate that consequences and response to perceived threats be of a nature that is not interpreted as blanket permission to continue activities that are likely to be perceived (or misperceived) as threats. Would schools, airports, or government buildings be able to function if students and citizens were given the green light to bring in homemade electronics in briefcase like containers?

Yes, they function just fine when people travel with devices that a first glance might look suspicious. I make tons of demo controller devices with tools, wires, chips, leds and always hand carry the case they are in. (but I do check my gun at the counter :biggrin:, Yes I'm from Texas) I always declare that I have electronics in the case before they scan it (I would never trust some TSA handler to open it without me being there if I checked it in at the counter). I have only been asked for a detailed inspection once and that was in Honolulu for an agricultural inspection.
 
  • #79
nsaspook said:
Yes, they function just fine when people travel with devices that a first glance might look suspicious. I make tons of demo controller devices with tools, wires, chips, leds and always hand carry the case they are in. (but I do check my gun at the counter :biggrin:, Yes I'm from Texas) I always declare that I have electronics in the case before they scan it (I would never trust some TSA handler to open it without me being there if I checked it in at the counter). I have only been asked for a detailed inspection once and that was in Honolulu for an agricultural inspection.

A number of my colleagues and I have decided that it simply easier and more reliable to ship equipment ahead of time rather than subject equipment to TSA inspection and mishandling for equipment that is likely to get increased attention. Even if they don't break it, the delay of the extra inspection and extra effort to get everything back in order is simply too big a hassle compared with the relatively minor expense and effort to ship it ahead of time.

The shipping companies (UPS and FedEx mostly) have gotten very good and reliable at electronic and other specialized scientific and engineering materials. TSA and the airlines are pathetic. In some cases, it is simply easier to drive.
 
  • #80
Dr. Courtney said:
A number of my colleagues and I have decided that it simply easier and more reliable to ship equipment ahead of time rather than subject equipment to TSA inspection and mishandling for equipment that is likely to get increased attention. Even if they don't break it, the delay of the extra inspection and extra effort to get everything back in order is simply too big a hassle compared with the relatively minor expense and effort to ship it ahead of time.

The shipping companies (UPS and FedEx mostly) have gotten very good and reliable at electronic and other specialized scientific and engineering materials. TSA and the airlines are pathetic.

If it's something common we do ship but if it's my 'baby' she stays with me.
 
  • #81
nsaspook said:
If it's something common we do ship but if it's my 'baby' she stays with me.

I get what you're saying, but if it's dear enough to call my 'baby', I'd be working hard to figure out how to drive and deprive the TSA their chance to mess it up.

But back to the educational angle, we've mentored a number of high school students in science projects related to rocketry, ballistics, and blast. We've been careful to explain to them not to bring that stuff to school. Even innocuous stuff (no energetic materials) can be misinterpreted as dangerous by well-intended teachers, administrators, and school resource officers.

This is too bad in many ways. One student had a project using high speed video to quantify the internal ballistics of a potato cannon (transparent barrel). The video was not nearly as compelling or as interesting as the spud gun would have been. (See: http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1305/1305.0966.pdf ) Another student had a project quantifying the dependence of rocket motor thrust on altitude. She put together a force plate that would have made for a great demonstration at the fair. Yet another student project tested how exact the proportionality of air drag and air density is for supersonic projectiles. Since the easiest projectiles to experiment with were bullets, she had to leave those at home.

I even caught heat once from an ignorant administrator for passing around bullets in my physics class. (I mean just the inert projectile, without the powder or primer or launching system).

It's not enough not to _be_ dangerous in any way, these days one must not _appear_ dangerous, even to the ignorant and uninformed.
 
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  • #82
Dr. Courtney said:
It's not enough not to _be_ dangerous in any way, these days one must not _appear_ dangerous, even to the ignorant and uninformed.
Yeah, I had a guy working for me some years back who brought in, and lined up on his bookcase, a number of different sized shell casings. No power. No bullets. Just the shell casings. Some secretary said she found them "scary" so my boss asked the guy to take them home.
 
  • #83
Dr. Courtney said:
It's not enough not to _be_ dangerous in any way, these days one must not _appear_ dangerous, even to the ignorant and uninformed.

Is this the future we get if we appease the ignorant and uninformed?


Maybe we should calling it out when we see it.
 
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  • #84
nsaspook said:
Is this the future we get if we appease the ignorant and uninformed?

Maybe we should calling it out when we see it.

We sure should be calling it out.

But we should be challenging it with reason and facts rather than forcing their hand.

It's just not smart to confront the ignorant and uninformed with stuff that's likely to spook them into overreactions.

It's better to explain what one is going to do before hand, explain why it is safe, and gain agreement from the relevant authorities regarding the safety and soundness of one's planned actions.

Sometimes that is possible with an enlightened principal, teacher, or security guard. Other times, it is simply so much easier to substitute a picture or video that it is not worth the effort to change the minds of parties who are ignorant, stubborn, and in authority.
 
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  • #85
Dr. Courtney said:
We sure should be calling it out.

But we should be challenging it with reason and facts rather than forcing their hand.

It's just not smart to confront the ignorant and uninformed with stuff that's likely to spook them into overreactions.

It's better to explain what one is going to do before hand, explain why it is safe, and gain agreement from the relevant authorities regarding the safety and soundness of one's planned actions.

Sometimes that is possible with an enlightened principal, teacher, or security guard. Other times, it is simply so much easier to substitute a picture or video that it is not worth the effort to change the minds of parties who are ignorant, stubborn, and in authority.

While I agree in principle it's been my experience that reason and facts only work with those who are reasonable and are able to understand the facts when they are protected from abuse of authority. What has to change is the culture of fear and zero-tolerance combined with the destruction of the laws and procedures driven by that culture that is enabling people to make stupid decisions without consequence. This case makes me hopeful that people in general can see the evil this system of mindless judgment brings and some of us are forcing their hand by exposing it as harmful to the future of our society. Showing those involved how the system makes them look stupid is harsh but IMO harsh measures are needed to stop this now.
 
  • #86
dipole said:
No. How is being a critic of something the same thing as forcing your beliefs on people? There's nothing in the law that says government officials have to respect your personal beliefs - they only have to respect the law. If people take issue with a politicians opinion about some social or religious issue, they are free to vote against that person. And wouldn't you prefer people expose their opinions, good or bad, rather than keep them secret and let them silently impact their policy decisions?
Public officials make decisions that affect the lives of citizens. So what happens in a case like this one? Whether this was a fake bomb or a clock is a judgement call based on lots of information to which we, the voting public, will never have access. The officials making that determination will be influenced by their understanding of the people involved -- right or wrong. They determine what the law is in such situations.

IMO, public officials should make extra effort to treat people equally even if (or especially if) they disagree with them on some political/religious level.

There is a cost to freedom. One of those costs is in making the assumption of innocence. Yes scofflaws will take advantage. But that is a price we should gladly pay to avoid a society of jack booted thugs.
 
  • #88
Dr. Courtney said:
http://blogs.artvoice.com/techvoice...gineering-ahmed-mohameds-clock-and-ourselves/

This article makes a strong case that Ahmed's clock was not really an invention or electronics project, but rather an existing clock with the working parts simply transferred to a pencil case.

You beat me to it.
It would appear that elderly electronics nerds around the planet are collectively scratching our heads and saying; "That's not an invention. He took the casing off an 80's era clock, and put it in a box".

This Is Ahmed Mohamed’s Clock
.
comment by Tunacrab;
...
Anyone with an understanding of electronics will immediately see this “homemade clock” is not the tinkering of a child or teen. It was never Ahmed’s idea to begin with. This isn’t some innocent science project. The picture of the clock exposes the lie. Ahmed did not lovingly patch together IC chips and resistors, as the media would like you to believe. What you see is the guts from a manufactured digital clock, right down to the 9 volt memory backup, and the prefab button board. Absolutely nothing was made. It’s the equivalent of taking the plastic surround off of your TV and claiming you “made” a TV.
...

ps. I'm still cleaning out my house, and have not yet found my first high school electronics project: A stopwatch, made from one of the first led display calculators, and a small smidgeon of components surrounding a 555 timer. Never could get that darned thing calibrated. And my soldering skills, at 14... OMG!
 
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  • #89
Adding to the Texas stupidity, http://www-tcall.tamu.edu/docs/09illitmap.html .
 
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  • #90
OmCheeto said:
It would appear that elderly electronics nerds around the planet are collectively scratching our heads and saying; "That's not an invention. He took the casing off an 80's era clock, and put it in a box".
It's possible that the media through in the word invention giving the teen more of a celebrity status. Perhaps he introduced some innovation, but I don't know enough details. On the other hand, I have yet to see someone point to something in the device that looks like an explosive, e.g., a tube of gunpowder or block of C4 or Semtex. If it looked like C4 or Semtex, the one would have to ask, how did a 14-year old get access to such material.

At 14, I knew very well what various materials looked like.
 
  • #91
The fact that he didn't build it totally changes the tone of the story. While I don't think he intended to build a "hoax bomb" it certainly looks like it was at least a "mock bomb".

He's 14, he probably doesn't understand that building a mock bomb is such a big deal. His Engineering teacher however should have confiscated it and said "you'll get this back at the end of the day, don't bring something like this in again" and that would have been the end of it.
 
  • #92
Rio Larsen said:
Adding to the Texas stupidity, http://www-tcall.tamu.edu/docs/09illitmap.html .
Which at 19% and per that link is a better rate (lacking-basic-literacy) than ... California (23%), New York (22%).

I don't see "stupidity" in the title of the report nor elsewhere in the study as a cause. Perhaps there are other possible explanations for English illiteracy. For instance, in a border state with high job growth, perhaps many speak languages other than English. Would they be counted as lacking-basic-literacy in this study? Yes.

It should be noted that adults who were not able to take the assessment because they were not able to communicate in English or Spanish (i.e. language barrier cases) are included in the indirect estimates and classified as lacking BPLS because they can be considered to be at the lowest level of English literacy.
 
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  • #93
mheslep said:
Which at 19% and per that link is a better rate (lacking-basic-literacy) than ... California (23%), New York (22%).

I don't see "stupidity" in the title of the report nor elsewhere in the study as a cause. Perhaps there are other possible explanations for English illiteracy. For instance, in a border state with high job growth, perhaps many speak languages other than English. Would they be counted as lacking-basic-literacy in this study? Yes.

To be honest, I was very freaked out to see that it was Texas A&M that posted that illiteracy chart.
Some of the most intelligent people I know are from Texas.
hmmm...
 
  • #94
This is not directed to anyone here but I've statements in this direction elsewhere.

I just laugh when I see theories of how the boy had some sort of plan to cause an event at school. Most classic conspiracy theories are built on the deconstruction of events in a plan (an innocent plan to impress his teacher here) that actually (and usually in a random fashion) evolved in real-time and were not deterministic. The need to see random events as deterministic parts of a master plan seems to stem from our need to be in control of events or see a 'reason' for things instead of just falling down the well of time with random events controlling our lives. Occam's razor and all information so far available point to the events happening just like he said from the choice of possible and more complex alternatives to what he said.
 
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  • #95
If he did do all this on purpose then he is the most brilliant Social Engineer in history ;)
 
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  • #96
Rio Larsen said:
Adding to the Texas stupidity, http://www-tcall.tamu.edu/docs/09illitmap.html .

As much fun as it is to pile on Texans, the statement should be that 19% of Texans cannot read an English newspaper. Something like 31% of Texans only speak Spanish at home. This tells you something about Texans, but probably not what you thought it did.
 
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  • #97
DavidSnider said:
If he did do all this on purpose then he is the most brilliant Social Engineer in history ;)
Or perhaps his father, who is a political activist, is a pretty good one.

Does it bother anyone else that this clock was mounted inside the case?
 
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  • #98
Jeff Rosenbury said:
IMO, public officials should make extra effort to treat people equally

Which is exactly what zero tolerance does. The price you pay is that you start suspending kids for half-eaten pop-tarts.

russ_watters said:
Or perhaps his father, who is a political activist, is a pretty good one.

Oh, he might have played a part, but fundamentally this story was, as they say, "too good to check". It fits so many narratives, it was fated to be told this way, no matter what the facts were.
 
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  • #99
russ_watters said:
Or perhaps his father, who is a political activist, is a pretty good one.

Does it bother anyone else that this clock was mounted inside the case?

Why should it?

I've seen the junk pencil box and I've seen the junk clock. Together it looked like a junk clock in a junk pencil box that IMO the idea that it might get him in trouble or cause trouble never crossed his mind. So yes, he wanted attention as in the attention of his STEM teacher and he has said many times that he wanted to impress his teacher.
 
  • #100
With the new information, it does sound plausible that the boy was building an "Islamaphobia detector" , or maybe it was more innocent childish prank. We'll never know for sure.

Suddenly this case as a "perfect" example of whatever point you want to make has become very imperfect.
 
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