A few very basics questions regarding 4 and 3 momenta and the trace of

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the conservation of 4-momentum in closed systems and the properties of the Faraday tensor, specifically its trace and diagonal elements. It includes theoretical considerations and conceptual clarifications related to these topics.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asks whether the conservation of 4-momentum implies the conservation of energy and 3-momentum, suggesting that if the initial and final 4-momenta are equal, then the components must also be equal.
  • Another participant confirms the reasoning regarding the conservation of 4-momentum and its implications for energy and 3-momentum.
  • A participant states that the trace of the Faraday tensor being zero does not necessitate that all diagonal entries are zero.
  • Another participant adds that while the trace being zero is a coordinate-independent statement, the condition that all diagonal elements are zero holds true only in Minkowski coordinates, not in general coordinates.
  • A participant expresses confusion about the relationship between coordinate independence and the diagonal elements of the Faraday tensor, prompting further clarification.
  • It is reiterated that while the trace remains zero across all coordinates, the condition of all diagonal elements being zero does not apply in general coordinates.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the implications of 4-momentum conservation, but there is some confusion and discussion regarding the properties of the Faraday tensor and its trace, indicating that multiple interpretations exist.

Contextual Notes

The discussion touches on the implications of coordinate systems in the context of tensor properties, highlighting that assumptions about diagonal elements may depend on the chosen coordinate system.

fluidistic
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Hi guys! I've got 2 extremely simple questions, hence a single thread.
First, I want to know whether the conservation of the 4-momentum in a closed system implies the conservation of the energy and of the 3-momentum.
Let's assume we consider 2 different times, ##t_i## and ##t_f##. Then ##P_i=(E_i/c,\vec p_i)=P_f=(E_f/c, \vec p_f)##. Where the E's are the energy at the 2 different times and the lower capital p's are the 3-momenta at those 2 different times.
Now each component of ##P_i## must be equal to each component of ##P_f## right? If so, it follows that ##E_i=E_f## and that ##\vec p _i = \vec p_f##. Is this correct?

Second question. I've "heard" that the trace of Faraday tensor is 0 and thus its diagonal entries are all 0. However the trace is definied as the sum of all the entries on the diagonal... so the fact that the trace is 0 does not imply that all the diagonal entries are worth 0. Is this correct?
Thanks.
 
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Yes to your first question - all reasoning and conclusion is fine.

[edit: removed answer to second question, since you changed it while I was writing answer.]
 
trace=0 does not, by itself, require all diagonal entries to be zero.
 
As for the Faraday tensor, trace=0 is a coordinate independent statement. All diagonal elements zero is true in Minkowski coordinates, but not in general coordinates.
 
I see PAllen, thanks for the confirmations.
However I don't really understand your last statement
As for the Faraday tensor, trace=0 is a coordinate independent statement. All diagonal elements zero is true in Minkowski coordinates, but not in general coordinates.
. If it is coordinate independent, then how come it is not true with general coordinates?
 
fluidistic said:
I see PAllen, thanks for the confirmations.
However I don't really understand your last statement . If it is coordinate independent, then how come it is not true with general coordinates?

trace=0 is true in all coordinates.

All diagonal elements zero is not true in general coordinates. However, the trace will still be zero.
 
PAllen said:
trace=0 is true in all coordinates.

All diagonal elements zero is not true in general coordinates. However, the trace will still be zero.

Ah I see! Thanks a lot. (I had to reread).
 

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