A hypothetical machine (fluid expansion)

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a hypothetical machine that utilizes fluid expansion due to solar heating to perform mechanical work, specifically in the context of a shading system that opens and closes to regulate temperature. Participants explore the feasibility, efficiency, and potential complications of this concept.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that the proposed shading system could utilize thermal expansion of fluids to perform mechanical work, raising questions about its practicality.
  • Another participant argues that the approach may be counterproductive, as shading would reduce the efficiency of solar energy collection.
  • A different viewpoint considers the shading system's potential to keep houses cool by automatically adjusting based on sunlight, but raises concerns about timing and temperature measurement.
  • Concerns are expressed regarding the small coefficients of thermal expansion, particularly for fluids like ethanol, suggesting that the resulting mechanical work may be negligible.
  • Participants reference existing technologies, such as greenhouse ventilation systems, that utilize similar principles of fluid expansion for temperature control.
  • Discussion includes examples of solar thermal energy applications, such as solar updraft towers, and the potential for using fluid cylinders in shading systems.
  • One participant acknowledges a misunderstanding of the original question, indicating the complexity and varied interpretations of the proposed idea.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of opinions on the feasibility and efficiency of the proposed shading system, with no clear consensus on its practicality or effectiveness. Some agree on the potential applications of fluid expansion, while others question the viability of the concept.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations related to the timing of shutter operation and the variability of sunshine and temperature, as well as the small magnitude of thermal expansion effects. These factors contribute to the uncertainty surrounding the proposed system's effectiveness.

FermatPell
Messages
21
Reaction score
0
Hello,

Imagine that we have a fluid heated up by solar energy (every day during sunlight). Due to higher temperature it would undergo thermal expansion and do some mehanical work while expanding, right? And during night it would cool down and hence compress and do some negative mechanical work. Now, my friend has an idea of constructing a shading system (practically a set of "shading units" that cover people from sun and open at day and close at night). What are the possible complications that might arise?
 
Science news on Phys.org
Your friend is obviously thinking, which is always a good thing. In this case, however, his approach would be counterproductive. The most efficient use of solar energy would be based upon accumulating all heat or light available, which "shuttering" would decrease.
 
Perhaps that's the point. Perhaps this invention is intended to keep houses cool by automatically closing shutters on windows in strong sunshine?

I think it might work but I suspect it would be hard to control the exact time at which the shutters open or close. Sunshine isn't allways a good measure of temperature either. Many countries have a lot of sunshine in winter when it's cold with snow on the ground. Do you want the shutters open or closed then? Open to allow heat in but closed if the sun is too bright?
 
Also, the coefficients are thermal expansion (volumetric coefficents) are small numbers. Let's take for instance ethanol (which expands quite a lot) whose β=750*10^(-6) K^-1.

Do you agree that thermal expansion will be too negligible to produce any significant work, like closing/opening the shutters?
 
With boiling fluids, this is the concept of solar thermal energy, and solar updraft towers use expanding air. Both have demonstration projects, but they are still experimental.

You can use them for shutters, too, but I would expect that the combination "power plant somewhere + motor where you need it" is usually better, apart from some simple systems like the greenhouse thing.
 
They already use fluid cylinders on solar panel frames to track the sun and to open and close vents in green houses to maintain even temps. It would be easy to convet this to the operation of shutters to block the sun or to let the sun in for "passive" solar heating and cooling.
Paul
 
I want to take this opportunity to apologize to Fermat for misunderstanding his/her original question. I took it to mean that the shutters were to be used as a "strobe" system to maximize the number of times that a photoreactive mechanism would be cycled.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
4K
  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
6K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
3K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
4K
Replies
24
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
5K
  • · Replies 87 ·
3
Replies
87
Views
10K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 152 ·
6
Replies
152
Views
11K