A question on the conservation of energy

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of conservation of energy, particularly questioning how energy sources like the sun and wind can exist if energy cannot be created or destroyed. Participants explore the implications of this principle in relation to various energy forms and their origins.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how energy sources exist if energy cannot be created or destroyed, seeking clarification on the origins of energy.
  • Another participant provides examples of energy transformation, such as wind energy being converted into electrical energy, while acknowledging potential losses.
  • Further inquiries are made about the origins of wind and the sun's energy, suggesting a chain of questions leading back to the Big Bang.
  • A participant introduces the concept of the second law of thermodynamics, noting the irreversible depletion of useful energy types in the universe.
  • Clarification is sought regarding the "SM-based version of cosmology," which is explained as the cosmological perspective informed by the Standard Model of particle physics.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of energy conservation and the origins of energy, with no consensus reached on the foundational questions posed.

Contextual Notes

The discussion touches on complex concepts such as the Big Bang and thermodynamics, with some assumptions about the definitions of energy and its forms remaining unresolved.

startic84
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Hello all. Please help me find the answer to my question...I would glady appreciate your help.

I'd like to know...since the conservation of energy states that energy can neither be created nor destroyed but only gets tranforms from one form to another, how is it that we today already have energy sources etc. around?

I mean, as in, like the sun's energy and the energy that's being used to power this computer and so on...where did those energy come from if the law states that " energy...cannot be created nor destroyed..."?
 
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For the first part,the simplest example i can think of is the one with wind-mills:we thake the energy of air flows (wind) and use it to produce (very cheap) electrical energy...Sure,there may be loses,but that is a good example of energy conservation & "energy sources" involved.

As for our Sun,it "burns out fuel" continuously and it's estimated that it will exhaust it in ~5 billion yrs...

And the energy powering our computers comes from "energy sources" which are based on the same fundamental principle.

Daniel.
 
so what made the wind? what made the air that constituted the wind? And so on...
how did the sun have that fuel to burn?

does " because the big bang happended" answers my question?
 
Sure,this chain of question would indeed end with the question:"Where did everything come from",if this everything is generally conserved...
So for the last question,the answer is that BB happened in the SM-based version of cosmology.

Daniel.
 
There is an on-going, irreversible process of depletion of useful types ofenergy in the universe.
This is called the 2.law of thermodynamics.
(The 1.law states that all (useful plus useless) energy is conserved)
 
what is SM-based version of cosmology?
 
The origin (fuzzy) and the evolution of the Universe viewed by the cosmologists using The Standard Model of Particles and Interactions...

Magnificiently described by (Nobel Laureate) Steven Weinberg in his book:"The First Three Minutes"...

Daniel.
 

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