About friction and elastic collisions

AI Thread Summary
The discussion centers on whether a collision between two balls, each carrying a detachable bar with friction, would be considered elastic or frictionless. Participants clarify that friction does not directly affect the elasticity of a collision, as elastic collisions are defined by the conservation of kinetic energy. They argue that even in the absence of significant friction, energy loss can occur through other means such as heat and sound. The example of cars is debated, with the consensus leaning towards modeling collisions with simpler objects like balls for clarity. Ultimately, the key takeaway is that friction's role in determining the elasticity of a collision is minimal.
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Say you have these two balls moving in opposite directions. The balls float in the air and thus by themselves have negligible friction, but each is carrying a (detachable) bar across the ground, which has friction. On the very instant the balls collide with each other, they let go of their respective bar and get attached to the other ball's bar (see pic).

Would this collision be frictionless, and thus elastic, or not?

EDIT: sorry. This is not for any homework, it's a question that occurred to me. Is it still considered a "homework type" question? If so, please move the thread.
 
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hi dorker! :smile:
dorker said:
Would this collision be frictionless, and thus elastic, or not?

friction has nothing to do with elasticity

if two cars are launched into the air, and then collide, then there's no friction, but the collision obviously isn't elastic :wink:
 
^ You sure about that? An elastic collision is one where there's no kinetic energy lost. And friction is the main thing one would think it's lost to.

About your example, a car can't be properly modeled as a single body. A lot of energy is probably lost between the different pieces that compose it. I think the proper comparison would be two balls colliding in the air, which I imagine would be an elastic collision (provided they're not too fast, so air friction is negligible).
 
dorker said:
An elastic collision is one where there's no kinetic energy lost. And friction is the main thing one would think it's lost to.

in a collision, the energy lost to friction is almost zero

most of the energy "lost" is in heat vibration noise and distortion
About your example, a car can't be properly modeled as a single body …

for energy and momentum equations?

of course it can​
 
I see. Thanks.
 

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