AC through the wires, forces acting in/out of phase currents

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves two parallel wires carrying alternating currents, with a focus on understanding the forces acting on the wires when the currents are in phase versus out of phase. The context is rooted in electromagnetism and the behavior of currents in magnetic fields.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the meaning of "in phase" and "out of phase" currents, with attempts to clarify how these conditions affect the forces on the wires. There is uncertainty about the implications of alternating currents and the nature of the forces involved.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided definitions of in-phase and out-of-phase currents, while others are questioning the relevance of certain forces and the interpretation of the problem. There is an ongoing exploration of the concepts without a clear consensus on the specifics of the forces acting on the wires.

Contextual Notes

Participants express confusion regarding the relationship between the current phases and the forces, with references to external sources like Wikipedia for clarification. There is also mention of the Lorentz force, indicating a need for further exploration of the magnetic interactions at play.

moenste
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Homework Statement


Two parallel wires have currents passed through them which are in the same direction. Draw a diagram showing the directions of the currents and of the forces on the wires.

Alternating currents are now passed through the wires. Explain what forces would act if the currents were: (a) in phase, and (b) out of phase, by π rad.

2. The attempt at a solution
For the drawing part:

adf5d89d055e.jpg


We have two wires that have upwards directed current. The X circles represent the entering of the field into the paper and O circles represent the field coming out of the paper. We also have smaller circles that represent the field of the other wire that is affecting the neighbouring wire.

The forces are acting to the center of the distance between the wires.

In terms of (a) and (b) I don't understand what should be done. AC means that the current switches back and forth. What does it mean "current in phase" and "current out of phase by π rad"? What forces would be acting? Don't think that the question is about the gravity forces or something like that...
 
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Can't say I find the smaller circles clarifying things ...

"In phase" means the alternating currents go upwards and downwards synchronously. So if one is ##\ \sin \omega t\ ## the other is also ##\ \sin \omega t\ ##.

"Out of phase" here means completely out of phase: when one goes up the other goes down and vice versa. So if one is ##\ \sin \omega t\ ## the other is also ##\ \sin ( \omega t\ + \pi) = - \sin \omega t\ ##
 
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BvU said:
Can't say I find the smaller circles clarifying things ...
The smaller circles represent the field of the other wire (of the second on the first and the other way around). For example: we have a wire II with B coming out of the paper on the side of the I wire. And this B is not only limited to the distance between I and II, but this field is affecting the whole left side of the area. However, the larger is the distance from II, the less powerful is the field. It is taken from this video.

BvU said:
"In phase" means the alternating currents go upwards and downwards synchronously. So if one is sinωt \ \sin \omega t\ the other is also sinωt \ \sin \omega t\ .

"Out of phase" here means completely out of phase: when one goes up the other goes down and vice versa. So if one is sinωt \ \sin \omega t\ the other is also sin(ωt +π)=−sinωt
Hm, so the centripetal force will act?
 
moenste said:
Hm, so the centripetal force will act?
There is no circular motion here: the sine is just a way to describe the time dependence of the current
 
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BvU said:
There is no circular motion here: the sine is just a way to describe the time dependence of the current
But what forces are they talking about then? There is no mentioning of any forces in the Wikipedia article.
 
They are talking about the magnetic force on a current carrying wire in a magnetic field (basically the Lorentz force)

The wikipedia article was about phase
 
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