Action of a symmetry operation on a Bloch state

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter dRic2
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    State Symmetry
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the action of symmetry operations, specifically glide mirror symmetry, on Bloch states in a 2D periodic lattice. Participants explore the implications of applying such symmetry operators to Bloch states, examining the resulting phases and the conditions under which these operations commute with the Hamiltonian.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that applying a symmetry operator M to a Bloch state results in a phase factor, leading to the equation $$M\ket{ψ_{\mathbf k}}=e^{iϕ(\mathbf k)}\ket{ψ_{\mathbf k}}$$.
  • Another participant derives a position-dependent phase from the glide mirror symmetry, expressing it as $$\phi = -k_x a / 2 - 2k_y y$$, and notes that this phase varies with position.
  • A later reply agrees with the position-dependent phase but expresses initial discomfort with it, suggesting that the phase should be simpler for points on the x-axis.
  • Another participant questions the validity of the derived phase, pointing out a contradiction in the application of the symmetry operator and the Hamiltonian, leading to a discussion about potential mistakes in the reasoning.
  • A subsequent post acknowledges the mistake and clarifies that the glide mirror symmetry behaves like a mirror symmetry, leading to a new expression for the phase as $$\phi = \frac{k_x a}{2} + \pi N$$ for any integer N.
  • One participant raises a question about whether the phase induced by any symmetry must be position-independent, suggesting that the reasoning could apply generally to any operator commuting with the Hamiltonian.
  • Another participant responds, indicating that the phase of the Bloch wavefunction can indeed scale with position and hints at deriving a general constraint from the commutation relation with the Hamiltonian.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of the phase induced by symmetry operations, with some asserting that it can be position-dependent while others question this assumption. The discussion remains unresolved regarding whether all symmetry-induced phases must be position-independent.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes various assumptions about the nature of Bloch states and the specific symmetries being considered, which may affect the conclusions drawn. There are unresolved mathematical steps and dependencies on the definitions of the operators involved.

dRic2
Gold Member
Messages
887
Reaction score
225
Generally speaking, if the Hamiltonian has a specific symmetry defined by an operator M, that is ##[H,M]=0##, when I apply such symmetry operator to a Bloch state I would expect the state to be left unchanged up to a phase:
$$M\ket{ψ_{\mathbf k}}=e^{iϕ(\mathbf k)}\ket{ψ_{\mathbf k}}$$
For the simple case of a translation of a lattice vector R the phase it gets is just ##e^{−i \mathbf k \cdot \mathbf R}##.

What about more complicated symmetries? In my case, I would like to consider a 2D periodic lattice where there is also an additional symmetry called "glide mirror symmetry". This symmetry is composed by a reflection along the x-axis (##y \rightarrow −y##) and a translation in the x-direction of half of a lattice vector (##x \rightarrow x - \frac a 2##), where ##a## a is the lattice vector).

If I apply this symmetry to a Bloch state then what is the resulting phase? I get stuck at the very beginning:
$$M \psi_{\mathbf k}(\mathbf x) = e^{-i[k_x(x-\frac a 2)-k_yy]} u(x-a/2, -y)$$

Thanks

(Let's consider spinless electrons, i.e. scalar Bloch states)
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
So you start with a Bloch state $$|\psi \rangle = e^{i\mathbf{k}\cdot \mathbf{x}} u(\mathbf{x})$$ where ##u(\mathbf{x})## is a real valued function. Applying your glide mirror operator M, $$\begin{align*} M|\psi \rangle &= e^{i (k_x (x-a/2) - k_y y)} u(x-a/2,-y) \\ &= e^{i(k_x a / 2 - 2k_y y)} e^{i\mathbf{k} \cdot \mathbf{x}} u(x-a/2,-y) \end{align*}$$ You know from the fact that ##M## commutes with the Hamiltonian that ##M|\psi \rangle = e^{i\phi} |\psi \rangle##, so comparing that with the above result: $$u(x,y) = u(x-a/2,y)$$ $$\phi = -k_x a / 2 - 2k_y y$$

Edit: This post is just wrong. Skip down to post #6.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: dRic2
Hi, thanks for the answer.
I arrived at the same conclusion, but I posted because I felt weird about the phase being position-dependent (## 2k_y y##). But now that you also suggested the same solution I think it does make sense that the phase is position-dependent. In fact, for example, the point on the x-axis (y=0) are not affected by the Mirror-symmetry and their phase would be just ##\phi=-k_xa/2## (as expected by a translation). On the other hand, the more I move far away from the x-axis, the more the mirror symmetry will be "important".
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Twigg
I had the same gut reaction, but I felt ok with after realizing the Bloch phase ##\phi = \mathbf{k} \cdot \mathbf{x}## is also position-dependent.
 
But wait... something is wrong
$$\hat M \hat H \ket{\psi_k} = \hat M E_k \ket{\psi_k} = E_k e^{i\phi}\ket{\psi_k}$$
While
$$\hat H \hat M \ket{\psi_k} = \hat H e^{i\phi}\ket{\psi_k}$$
if ##\phi=-k_xa/2 - 2k_yy## and ##\hat H = - \partial^2_x + V(x)## then:
$$\hat H e^{i\phi}\ket{\psi_k} = - \partial^2_x(e^{i\phi}\ket{\psi_k}) + V(x)e^{i\phi}\ket{\psi_k}$$
$$- e^{i\phi}\partial^2_x(\ket{\psi_k}) - k_y^2e^{i\phi}\ket{\psi_k} + e^{i\phi}V(x)\ket{\psi_k}$$
$$e^{i\phi}[- \partial^2_x + V(x)]\ket{\psi_k} - k_y^2e^{i\phi}\ket{\psi_k} = e^{i\phi}(\hat H -k_y^2)\ket{\psi_k} \neq \hat M \hat H \ket{\psi_k} $$

which contradicts the assumption ##[H,M]=0##

Did I make a mistake?
 
You're right. I forgot something silly, and my last post was dead wrong. The glide mirror symmetry behaves exactly like a mirror symmetry in non-periodic situations. The reason is that $$\hat{M}^2 \psi(\mathbf{x}) = \psi(x-a,-(-y)) = e^{ik_x a} \psi(\mathbf{x})$$ since a is the lattice interval and ##\psi(\mathbf{x}) = e^{i \mathbf{k}\cdot\mathbf{x}}u(\mathbf{x})##. This means that the phase ##\phi## defined by $$\hat{M} \psi(\mathbf{x}) = e^{i\phi} \psi(\mathbf{x})$$ must be a root of $$\left(e^{i\phi}\right)^2 = e^{ik_x a}$$ which implies $$\phi = \frac{k_x a}{2} + \pi N$$ for any integer ##N##. In a much prettier form, you can say $$\hat{M} \psi(\mathbf{x}) = \pm e^{ik_x a / 2} \psi(\mathbf{x})$$ I think you'll find it easy to prove that this commutes.
 
  • Informative
Likes   Reactions: dRic2
This leaves me with one last question: do you think that the phase induce by any symmetry has to be position-independent? I mean the reasoning of post #5 should be quite general for any operator does is supposed to commute with H, right?
 
dRic2 said:
do you think that the phase induce by any symmetry has to be position-independent?

The phase of the Bloch wavefunction scales with position, so I don't see a problem. I'm sure you could derive a general constraint by solving the equation $$[\hat{Q},-\frac{\hbar^2}{2m} \nabla^2 + V(\mathbf{x})]\psi = 0$$
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
5
Views
4K
  • · Replies 20 ·
Replies
20
Views
7K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
5K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
991
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
4K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
6K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
5K