Thanks again for the input! I wasn't that aware of the musical scale and color spectrum being split up specifically for religious purposes, although I had probable cause that they were -- due to the "universal nature" of the hexagram and what their relationship is to it.Originally posted by HazZy
the 12 note scale simply followed guidos use of do-re-mi... notice the 12 note scale we use today includes only 7 fundamental notes, also notice that these fundamental notes are all directly from do(C)-re(D)-mi(E)-fa(F)-so(G)-la(A)-ti(B). A#,C#,D#,F#, and G# were added later. music as we know it today started out as a 7-note scale used by monks to help them memorize chants.
why are you so determined about this anyways? it was made with 7 notes for OBVIOUS religous reasons, it's not a coincedence. it's also argued by many that the color spectrum was split up specifically in 7 colors due to religios reasons, i would agree.
whatever generalizations you may find, you can't refute that Guido D'Arezzo invented the 7-note scale. maybe you don't understand what a scale is...Originally posted by LogicalAtheist
Hazzy - Perhaps, and no offense, but because of my musical background I am able to view what you say as incorrect because it makes many generalizations that aren't realized by people except those who have dealt with and learned music so much that they are able to view things at the highest most level.
guess you missed the link... GO HERE ---> http://www.teoria.com/reference/scales/02.htm (just what google popped up first, need more proof, search for yourself.)There is no 7 note scale. Show me one. It doesn't exist.
Just for the sake of illustration, in order to show the "universal relationship" between the numbers 6, 7 and 8 (the six basic colors of the color wheel in accord with white, the seven notes of the music scale, and hence "one octave"), if you take six coins of equal diameter, say six pennys, and laid them on the table in the form a hexagram, where each penny touched the edge of the next penny, you could then place a seventh penny in the center and all pennys will still touch ... a pattern by the way (i.e., honeycomb effect), that retains its form and can be repeated unto infinity, merely by adding more pennys to "the outside." Hence illustrating the universality between a hexagram and the numbers 6 and 7.Originally posted by Iacchus32
Thanks again for the input! I wasn't that aware of the musical scale and color spectrum being split up specifically for religious purposes, although I had probable cause that they were -- due to the "universal nature" of the hexagram and what their relationship is to it.
Originally posted by HazZy
guess you missed the link... GO HERE ---> http://www.teoria.com/reference/scales/02.htm (just what google popped up first, need more proof, search for yourself.)
anyone with even a basic understanding of music and/or a musical instrument knows the major scale very well. just out of sheer curiosity what kind of musical experience do you actually have?
Before anyone else makes a post about the musical scale, will you please follow this link? Also, let it be known that I was not the one who brought up the musical scale, as it was not part of the original post. However, if you take the time to read the post above, regarding the numbers 6, 7 and 8 and "one octave," you'll see how easily the idea of seven notes and one octave portrays a "universal pattern."Originally posted by HazZy
guess you missed the link... GO HERE ---> http://www.teoria.com/reference/scales/02.htm (just what google popped up first, need more proof, search for yourself.)
anyone with even a basic understanding of music and/or a musical instrument knows the major scale very well. just out of sheer curiosity what kind of musical experience do you actually have?
Originally posted by HazZy
sigh... a scale is a specified scheme of intervals, the diatonic scale uses the pythagorean scale for tuning. the intervals go something like this: 9:8 9:8 256:243 9:8 9:8 9:8 256:243. and that is the diatonic scale is a nutshell. just because the chromatic scale uses 12 intervals of 256:243 doesn't make the diatonic scale any less of a scale.
the diatonic scale is used far more. any time you see an orchestra practicing you'll hear the diatonic scale, anytime you here kids singing do-re-mi... you're hearing the diatonic scale.Originally posted by Alexander
Do people use diatonic scale? (Compare usage of diatonic and chromatic).
Originally posted by HazZy
the diatonic scale is used far more.
any time you see an orchestra practicing you'll hear the diatonic scale,
anytime you here kids singing do-re-mi... you're hearing the diatonic scale.
Have you read the first part of the post which refers to the colors in my avatar?Originally posted by Alexander
Colors are just names for wavelengths (say, around 530nm = green, around 650nm = red, etc) what to discuss here?
So what is the point in referring to the muscial scale in terms of "octaves?" (meaning eight). I guess this is kind of what threw me, and why I've always understood there were seven notes, including the eighth, which makes it "one octave."Originally posted by Alexander
Take a close look at any common musical instrument (say, a piano, violin, guitar, accordion, organ, etc) - it does not have diatonic scale.
Look at electronic keybord which simulates hundreds instruments - it does so in chromatic, not in diatonic scale. Look at synthesators. Look at software and sound boards - chromatic, chromatic and chromatic again.
the 12 note scale simply followed guidos use of do-re-mi... notice the 12 note scale we use today includes only 7 fundamental notes, also notice that these fundamental notes are all directly from do(C)-re(D)-mi(E)-fa(F)-so(G)-la(A)-ti(B). A#,C#,D#,F#, and G# were added later. music as we know it today started out as a 7-note scale used by monks to help them memorize chants.
mm hmm...well, I'd say the diatonic scale works here. In C that's: C - D - E - F - G - A - B But, of course, the diatonic scale is a pretty rarely used scale...
Logic is right, there is no 7-note scale. I think you have to learn basics of music. There is 12-note scale (each note separated by EXACTLY SAME distance (2)1/12 = 1.0594631...).
The purpose of this thread is to explore the relationship between numbers and symbolism, religious symbolism in particular, and try to give some validation as to what they mean. Got it? ...
i know that diatonic tuning is rarely used anymore, except with guitars, but that is of no importance to this subject whatsoever.
your music history seems off. guido invented do-re-mi... to correlate with the first tone in each of 6 songs tributed to saint john, each tone corresponds the the major scale. do-re-mi can be sung in any key, yet it was invented for use in the diatonic scale. and yes sharps were not added later into music, i was merely commenting on how we still use guido system slightly modified to include all semi-tones.All wrong. Do re mi is not assigned to any notes. It can be sung in any key. It's merely a template. To say it goes with the "fundamental notes" is pure idiocy. Also, the sharps and flats WERE NOT added later. Where in the hell did you here that?
another uneducated responce. the guitar is simply the only instrument i can think of that still uses diatonic tuning, steel guitarists(jerry byrd) can vouch for this. i never said that every guitarist uses diatonic tuning, your responce is pure ignorance.WTF? Who in the hell ever told you the guitar is diatonic. I've played guitar for 9 years. Please apoligize for such an INCORRECT statement.
there IS a seven note scale and although it’s not used today it still did exist, and may I add that it wasn’t even close to have been developed within 20 years. This was the beginning of a long, pointless argument, but you were still wrong.Let me repeat. There is NO musical scale with seven notes. Non exists out of all musical scales developed by all groups of people in the world. Aside from weird scales developed in the past 20 years.
I never said the guitar itself was diatonic… I said the tuning was. We were speaking of the use of the diatonic scale and the only use in recent history I could think of was the steel guitar.NO? The tuning of a guitar has NOTHING to do with it being chromatic.
THE FRETS OF A GUITAR DETERMIN WEATHER IT IS DIATONIC OR CHROMATIC.
Well because I took art throughout school and was introduced to the color wheel, and I understood there were the six basic colors, with all the gradations in between. I also understood that the infrared spectrum occurred before the ultra-violet spectrum, and that the visible spectrum (white light?) existed in between. Therefore I naturally concluded that the visible light spectrum should begin with red and end with violet. Also, if you were to look at the picture below (follow the link), and imagined the six outer colors as lights shining in the center, then the center would indeed be white ... I also needed to come up with a universal relationship between the numbers 6 and 7 (in accord with the seven spirits of God at the https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=429"), and this seemed to do the trick.Originally posted by Alexander
Iac, here is how colors are defined in terms of wavelength of e/m radiation: 420 nm = volet, 470 nm = blue, 500 nm = turquose, 540 nm = green, 570 nm = yellow, 610 nm = orange, 650 nm = red (all to +/- 20 nm because different people call "red" to different wavelengths). Notice lack of white in the middle (contrary to your color scale) because white is not a color.
So, based on what physical property of colors did you assign certain numbers to certain colors? And why did white happen to also be a color?
Originally posted by Alexander
On WHAT ground did YOU assign number "7" to 420 nm wavelength (violet), number "6" to 470 nm = (blue), then NO number to 500 nm (=turquose), "5" to 540 nm (green), then you saddenly miss the number "4" (?!) assigning at will this number to the mixture of all wavewlengths altogether, then "3" to 570 nm (yellow), then "2" to 610 nm (orange), and then "1" to 650 nm (=red)? Any mathematical function, or you just decided to spread numbers at your peronal taste/ feelings?
Also, what was the reason to leave wide hole in the spectrum (where turquose is) and what was the reason to exclude number "4"? And what was the reason to assign the number "4" not to specific color (wavelength) but to the mixture of all colors?
And why after non-mathematical assigment of numbers to colors you still use arithmetic (math) to combine them?
And what does 37x12=444 mean exactly in your color notation? What is "37" here, what is "444" and what do "x" and "=" mean?
In school they teach you there are three "primary" colors (red, yellow, blue) and three "secondary" colors (orange, green, violet). Now these are "pigmented colors," as opposed to "colors of light," which I suppose can make a difference? Nonetheless this is how I derived the six basic colors. From there it was an educated guess (per what I said in the previous post) as to what color I should assign to number 1.Originally posted by Alexander
On WHAT ground did YOU assign number "7" to 420 nm wavelength (violet), number "6" to 470 nm = (blue), then NO number to 500 nm (=turquose), "5" to 540 nm (green), then you saddenly miss the number "4" (?!) assigning at will this number to the mixture of all wavewlengths altogether, then "3" to 570 nm (yellow), then "2" to 610 nm (orange), and then "1" to 650 nm (=red)? Any mathematical function, or you just decided to spread numbers at your peronal taste/ feelings?
As I said the six "basic colors" had already been determined (had no idea about turquoise) ... Also, are you familiar with the Jewish Menorah? ... i.e., the older version with seven branches? I was trying to develop a relationship between this and the Star of David (i.e., hexagram), and figure out how to incorporate the number seven (seven branches of the Menorah) into both schemes. Anyway the number "4" is in the center of the Menorah and yet, there are only six colors which can be assigned to Star of David, therefore the only way to add a seventh aspect would be to its center (as in the Menorah). And, since the six colors has already been determined, it only made sense that the center be white, and hence the central color scheme itself -- "white light." This also makes sense in that the stand of the Menorah is the center as well as the "4th aspect." If you follow the link below you might get a better idea.Also, what was the reason to leave wide hole in the spectrum (where turquose is) and what was the reason to exclude number "4"? And what was the reason to assign the number "4" not to specific color (wavelength) but to the mixture of all colors?
The numbers help to illustrate the symmetry between the Menorah and the Star of David, and that indeed the "4th aspect" belongs in the center (of each).And why after non-mathematical assigment of numbers to colors you still use arithmetic (math) to combine them?
After determining the number values for yellow (3) and violet (7), I realized that it corresponded to this meditation phenomenon that I relate at the https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=429", as illustrated by my avatar to the left. Beyond that, I don't know that there's much else to say ... except that it helps illustrate the "spherical" relationship between the symbols, colors, numbers and the meditation technique. If you would like to read more please follow the link ...And what does 37x12=444 mean exactly in your color notation? What is "37" here, what is "444" and what do "x" and "=" mean?