Aerodynamic Drag: Turbulent Flow & Exchange of Momentum

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the relationship between turbulent flow and aerodynamic drag, exploring the mechanisms that contribute to increased drag in turbulent conditions. Participants examine various types of drag, including friction drag, pressure drag, and wave drag, and how they are affected by turbulence and flow characteristics.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that turbulent flow increases drag due to momentum exchange between slower and faster moving particles.
  • One participant asserts that drag can increase by roughly an order of magnitude when flow transitions to turbulence.
  • Multiple types of drag are discussed, including friction drag, which is influenced by the viscous effects of the fluid and the steep velocity gradient in turbulent flow.
  • Pressure drag is noted to arise from pressure differences related to the shape of a body and the flow profile around it.
  • One participant claims that wave drag occurs when the flow is supersonic, but later clarifies that this was a misstatement regarding the relationship between turbulence and wave drag.
  • Another participant argues that pressure drag remains unchanged between laminar and turbulent flow, except in cases where a turbulent boundary layer prevents flow separation, potentially reducing drag.
  • There is a contention that turbulence and supersonic flow are disjoint concepts, with wave drag not being influenced by turbulence.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between turbulence and various types of drag, particularly regarding the influence of turbulence on pressure and wave drag. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives presented.

Contextual Notes

Some claims about the effects of turbulence on drag types depend on specific conditions and assumptions about flow characteristics, which are not fully explored in the discussion.

fatlady1ac
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Does turbulent flow create more drag due to the exchange of momentum between the slower moving particles and faster moving particles?
 
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Yes. The drag goes up by roughly an order of magnitude when the flow transitions to turbulence.
 
From what I understand, there are multiple types of drag that come into play with turbulent flow. Friction drag arises due to the viscous effects of the fluid. Since the turbulent flow profile has such a large change from the free stream velocity to zero over a very short distance (du/dy is large), it causes a larger friction drag than would a laminar flow profile. Pressure drag is created by a pressure difference due mainly to the shape of a body and how the flow profile changes over the shape of the body. If the flow over the body at any point is turbulent enough to considered supersonic, you get wave drag.
 
timthereaper said:
From what I understand, there are multiple types of drag that come into play with turbulent flow. Friction drag arises due to the viscous effects of the fluid. Since the turbulent flow profile has such a large change from the free stream velocity to zero over a very short distance (du/dy is large), it causes a larger friction drag than would a laminar flow profile.

This is true, and is the physical reason the drag is greater.

timthereaper said:
Pressure drag is created by a pressure difference due mainly to the shape of a body and how the flow profile changes over the shape of the body. If the flow over the body at any point is turbulent enough to considered supersonic, you get wave drag.

Pressure drag (or form drag) remains the same regardless of whether the ball is laminar or turbulent. The only real exception is when a boundary layer is turbulent which prevents it from separating (as in a golf ball) in which case the form drag actually decreases. However, this is not a direct result of turbulence, but a secondary result due to a turbulent boundary layer's tendency to remain attached.

The concepts of turbulence and supersonic flow are disjoint and have nothing to do with one another. Wave drag has nothing to do with turbulence and turbulence will not do anything to change the amount of wave drag you get on a supersonic vehicle.
 
I guess I said that last one wrong. I only meant that at supersonic speeds that wave drag appears.
 
Thanks for all the replies.
 

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