Air ingress into a furnace vessel

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the dynamics of air ingress into a furnace vessel following a pressure breach. Participants explore the mechanisms by which outside air could enter the furnace, particularly under conditions of high temperature and pressure. The conversation includes theoretical considerations and potential calculations related to this phenomenon.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the driving force for air movement into the furnace after a breach and seeks to understand how equilibrium pressure is achieved.
  • Another participant suggests that air would enter the furnace by diffusion, referencing Fick's laws of diffusion, and mentions that cooling of the furnace could also facilitate air ingress.
  • It is noted that changes in barometric pressure could contribute to the phenomenon described as the furnace "breathing."
  • A participant expresses doubt about the return of gas and air through the breach if a significant thermal gradient exists, especially if the heating element remains active.
  • There is a proposal to estimate the mass flow of air into the furnace based on the cooling rate of the furnace, suggesting calculations involving heat capacity and temperature drop to determine the volume and mass of air entering.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants present multiple competing views on the mechanisms of air ingress, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the specific calculations and assumptions involved.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include assumptions about the thermal dynamics of the furnace, the impact of external conditions on air ingress, and the dependence on specific definitions of terms like "breathing." The calculations proposed rely on estimates of mass and heat capacity, which may vary.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying thermodynamics, fluid dynamics, or engineering principles related to furnace operations and safety protocols.

fluxfire71
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If a furnace at 500 celsius and 500 bar was to lose pressure from a breach (pipe break) resulting inert gas escaping the furnace would loose pressure and reach equilibrium pressure with outside room pressure.

When equilibrium pressure is reached how would the outside air enter into the furnace. I'm struggling to understand the driving force for air to move into the furnace.

Finaly how would one calculate such a thing?

Regards

Flux
 
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Air would enter by diffusion. Look up Fick's laws of diffusion.

Air would also enter if the furnace cooled down and the gas inside contracted.

Air would also enter via changes in barometric pressure and the furnace "breathing."
 
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insightful said:
Air would enter by diffusion. Look up Fick's laws of diffusion.

Air would also enter if the furnace cooled down and the gas inside contracted.

Air would also enter via changes in barometric pressure and the furnace "breathing."


If there is a significant thermal gradient i don't think the mixture of gas and air will return through the furnace breach assuming the furnace heating element is still engaged.
The gas expansion into the room will take some of the furnace energy but not a significant in comparision to the the stored thermal energy. (Basically the furnace will be much hotter than the outside)

I the case where the heating element was to fail the furnace will cool if i know the cooling rate i.e. J/sec lost, how could i use this information to work out the mass flow of air into the furnace?

Much appreciated

Flux
 
fluxfire71 said:
I the case where the heating element was to fail the furnace will cool if i know the cooling rate i.e. J/sec lost, how could i use this information to work out the mass flow of air into the furnace?
Estimate the mass and heat capacity of the furnace to get the temperature drop, then use V1/V2 = T1/T2 with T in Kelvin to get the volume of air pulled in. Then use the density of ambient air (about 1.2 kg/m3) to get the mass of air pulled in.
 

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