Americans are culturally inferior

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  • #51
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Shadow?

I think it is no use to sum up all countries who have some "bad affair" with the US for some particular reason. I mean, virtually ALL countries on the planet have bad experiences with the US.

The poll is very representative.
 
  • #52
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Shonogon, under the first amendment of the Constitution of the United States, you have freedom of speech and although you are not American, I am and I am going to act it. Think what you like, post what you like, because it is your right.
 
  • #53
Kerrie
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Originally posted by LURCH
It is within these freedoms that the chief cause of American "segregation" may lie. Although it is true that enforced segregation has been outlawed in the United States, the freedom of the individual to self-determination remains very important. Therefore, if a white supremacist, or a Black Panther, or Muslim extremist is unwilling to interact with members of other races or beliefs, they will not be forced to do so. If a person from a different culture finds the adaptation to America's "melting pot" culture to difficult or undesirable, they also will not be forced.

Groups of such people may form their own communities, so that they may have others "of their own sort" with whom to interact. The formation of such communities could be said to constitute a sort of self-imposed segregation. Though the practice is seen as quite distasteful by most Americans, the only way to eradicate it completely would be the removal of individuals' personal freedoms.

I find it quite ironic that our culture of tolerance has put us in this position. Now, if we wish to live up to our own ideals, we must be tolerant of intolerance!
i agree with what you are stating here as a consequence of our freedoms of speech, ability to better yourself without the limitations of a caste system, freedom to choose a religion (or not), and even the opportunity to challenge the justice system...no society or culture will be perfect, however what America does strive for is liberty and justice for all...
 
  • #54
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Originally posted by Shadow
Shonogon, under the first amendment of the Constitution of the United States, you have freedom of speech and although you are not American, I am and I am going to act it. Think what you like, post what you like, because it is your right.

Sorry, I prefer my own constitution, which guarantees more freedoms than yours. You have Patriot Act I and II, which are really fascist Patriottismus Akten. Your freedom is very much limited.
Although you are not European, I am and I am going to act like it. Think what you like, post what you like, because it is your right.

lol
 
  • #55
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Sorry, I prefer my own constitution, which guarantees more freedoms than yours. You have Patriot Act I and II, which are really fascist Patriottismus Akten. Your freedom is very much limited.
Yes snobby stuck up Europeans indeed windy. Shonogon I highly doubt that you have even read our constitution.
 
  • #56
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OH and by the way shonogon your dead wrong. And you are a liar. Not every country has had bad experiences with the US so I don't know what your talking about. ANd that "russoa played a more important role in WWII" is a bunch of crap. Trying to save ungrateful france and people like you. bah humbug.

About France, I can tell you quite a lot about the country. I have lived there on and off for about half my life (I'm half french).
Whoopi your half french. I'm 25% french, one of my parents is 50% and one of their parents is 100%. Big whoop. I don't think it is anything to be proiud of. Ashamed of is more like it. How can anyone take pride in how France has behaved. Normandy is the only place that has some sense. And they don't believe the french presidents anti american lies.
 
  • #57
Monique
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Originally posted by Windy
And should I even bother to mention that the US is inherently superior to Europe because it was built on a foundation of equality and democracy? WE didn't have crutches like the feudal system. LOL you Europeans are a joke. You're weak, you're poor, you're flawed, and you feel good about your "culture".

HA HA HA ROFLMFAO
This is starting to turn into a very childish 'I am better than you, no I am, no I am, no I am, you are stupid, no you are, no you are' etc discussion.

As was said before, no-one is better than another but there certainly are differences between countries in the way they handle things. The Americans think the Europeans are snobby, the Europeans think the Americans are arrogant.. that is not exactly how a world-economy is run right?

Bold statements like that are not going to enlighten anyone. True, the image of the US is damaged right now, but you have the choice of voting for a government that will take action and either improve the relation with the US or will become independent of the US.

And Windy, just to enlighten you about the politics in Europe: allmost (if not all?) countries have a political system based on democracy and where I come from certainly on equality and freedom of speech, even more so than I have seen in the States (the number of strikes and demonstrations that go on in the Netherlands is quite high).

The dutch economy was actually a feature item in the Economist last year (you know, that American journal) where they celebrated the Dutch 'polder economy' and how it was the model for other countries to adapt.. the article was about 16 pages long.. Ofcourse, we all know that the government painfully but courtseously resigned over a political issue regarding a military action that happened a few years earlier in Srebrenica, which sent the economy in a downward spiral. Politics is fluids, it's dynamical. Sometimes times things are good, sometimes they go bad, the same is happening everywhere and anywhere.

So don't say we are weak, poor, flawed, if you don't actually give an argument supporting those statements, discussions are made with arguments not statements.
 
  • #58
Monique
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btw, let me just say that there are so many strikes and demonstrations in the Netherlands not because we live and work in poor conditions, but it is inheritantly dutch to complain about our welfare and we like to take things in our own hand to get attention :)

We actually take pride in that and it is a well published fact too :p If you wonder where, there is a book called the Undutchables, written by non-dutch outsiders, so I guess it is an independent observation.

Anyway, that just on the side.
 
  • #59
Monique
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From the Economist::


A place in the world
Who would argue with the Dutch?
(From The Economist print edition) May 4th 2002

The rule of common sense
From public services to social policies, the Dutch are consummate pragmatists
(From The Economist print edition) May 4th 2002

A fine place to be
Dutch business is outward-looking and open to new ideas. But further liberalisation would help
(From The Economist print edition) May 4th 2002

Model makers
For two decades, the Netherlands' “polder model” seemed to be working miracles. Now the shine has worn off. But the Dutch still have plenty going for them, argues John Peet
(From The Economist print edition) May 4th 2002

Small but perfectly formed
There are more countries in the world than there ever have been before. So is it better nowadays to be a small nation than a big one?
(From The Economist print edition) Jan 3rd 1998

*Snobbishly puts the nose in the air and awaitens to catch high winds*
 
  • #60
BoulderHead
Americans are culturally inferior
I don’t think in terms of one culture being better than another. Different groups of people find different ways to exist together and develop according to their own unique design. Those within a particular group are likely to view their own culture as superior to all others anyway, so for me the question of superiority/inferiority is meaningless, and any attempted slam of Americans (or another group) I would view as a pathetic joke.
 
  • #61
Monique
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Originally posted by BoulderHead
I don’t think in terms of one culture being better than another. Different groups of people find different ways to exist together and develop according to their own unique design. Those within a particular group are likely to view their own culture as superior to all others anyway, so for me the question of superiority/inferiority is meaningless, and any attempted slam of Americans (or another group) I would view as a pathetic joke.
Very true, we could better look at the others' strenghts and try to improve our own inperfections..
 
  • #62
BoulderHead
Originally posted by Monique
Very true, we could better look at the others' strenghts and try to improve our own inperfections..
A most excellent idea. Differences help us to learn.
 
  • #63
russ_watters
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Originally posted by shonagon53
First, about the quotes, I think that's a detail, right?... Wether I put this in quotations or not, doesn't change the fact.
Kat had it right. My issue isn't with your grammar, its with quotes around things that aren't quotes. Thats called a LIE. I have a real problem with lies.

Again, the conclusions you reached are not supported by anything I have found on that page. If you have exact quotes that support you, cite them. Very little of what you have said can actually be found on the page I linked (I'm assuming its the one you were talking about though I'm not 100% sure).
 
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  • #64
Shonogon, I definitely think you are entitled to your opinion. But don't you think your ideas might be a bit stereotypical? Or does the term "culturally inferior" refer to cultures that are different from yours? America is the country of immigrants, so really, there is a great mix of cultures here. I am an American and I appreciate other cultures as well, especially the Spanish culture, among others. I'm sure your culture is also very interesting . It may help if you gave Americans a chance. By the way, I don't think your native language is the language of the future, unless it is mathematical, which is the true language of the future.
 
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  • #65
Originally posted by shonagon53


So, long live a strong EU and a more humble USA!

The United States will not be a superpower forever. Just like the Roman Empire, Spain, France, Germany, and even Russia backed down in power, the United States will be less powerful as well. It would be more beneficial for the entire world if people could put aside their differences and share equal power, but unfortunately, we don't live in this world. But, maybe after we get out of this political (and scientific, philiosophical, and theological) adolescence (if we survive), then we can all work together towards a common goal.
 
  • #66
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Originally posted by shonagon53
Americans are culturally inferior


I don't know if it could be possible to answer that question.

Before I could make up such a decision as whether america's culture is inferior or above, I would have to divide culture in two aspects:

Broad, and Deep.

Talking broad America probably has the most diversed and variated culture going on in the world, and you gotto admit it, we're all watching it excitedly!

Talking Deep (Rooted):

Originally posted by Kerrie

as far as our inferior culture, we are only a little over 200 years old
America is still young, and you still got a way to go. Sorry. :wink:

Mixing Time(Deep) with Substance(Broad) is rather hard.
 
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  • #67
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Boulderhead,
you're right, I like that idea of a moderate relativism.
However, the world is an interconnected place, and different cultures interact.
When one culture becomes the target for all other cultures, something is obviously happening.

That's all I was referring to.

So the question is, what do we do with the American Empire. I think it is a question every world citizen asks. Where do we go with this empire. How to live in it. How to help it abolish itself for its own good. These are the questions of our time.

That all cultures are inherently "equal" (not in a moral sense, but in the sense that you can't really compare them because they're simply different), is stating the obvious, I think.

Again, the question becomes different when we see that one culture is being perceived by all others, as a threat to having a good life.
 
  • #68
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So the question is, what do we do with the American Empire. I think it is a question every world citizens asks. Where do we go with this empire. How to live in it. How to help it abolish itself for its own good. These are the questions of our time.
Oh, gee, here I thoguht the questions of our time were How can we achieve world peace? and how can we prevent nuclear war? And how can we stop the evils of dictators and tyrants?

NOT how can we 'abolish' the American "empire" (I already explained it wasnt but nothing gets through to you shonogon, you only take the answer you think is right) and you say for it's own good. I pray that the EU does not become the leading superpower, there is no good to come of it and if you cannot see that then you are blind.
 
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  • #69
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Originally posted by russ_watters
Kat had it right. My issue isn't with your grammar, its with quotes around things that aren't quotes. Thats called a LIE. I have a real problem with lies.

Again, the conclusions you reached are not supported by anything I have found on that page. If you have exact quotes that support you, cite them. Very little of what you have said can actually be found on the page I linked (I'm assuming its the one you were talking about though I'm not 100% sure).


Sir, I'm sorry, I don't understand your problem. When I said that more South Koreans see America as a bigger threat than North Korea, I only read the results of a poll.

I'm sorry if you can't cope with that. Wether I put it in quotes or not, doesn't change the fact.

Please visit this link, and see for yourself (this is really the third and last time I ask you to do this little effort). You will see that it says: "Who is more dangerous? Q: America or North Korea?" and the answer reads: "49% of South Koreans see America as a bigger threat to peace and stability, 39% of them see North Korea as the
bigger threat".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/programmes/wtwta/poll/html/military/global_security.stm



Wheter I put this in quotes or not, has nothing to do with the subject. Please visit the link, and talk about the subject, not about details.

How is it possible that more South Koreans see America as the biggest threat compared to North Korea? I mean, this is an incredible idea--having in mind that America sees South Korea as an ally against North Korea, having in mind that America thinks everyone agrees that North Korea is more evil than themselves, while the immediate neighbours of that country see it totally differently. I means that's a disastrous poll result!

Please let's talk about this, not about quotes.











All other conclusions I mentioned here, are directly taken from the poll. Here's my method. I open the webpage, look at the results, and transcribe them in here. Revolutionary method! I know! :-)
 
  • #70
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Originally posted by Shadow
Oh, gee, here I thoguht the questions of our time were How can we achieve world peace? and how can we prevent nuclear war? And how can we stop the evils of dictators and tyrants?

NOT how can we 'abolish' the American "empire" (I already explained it wasnt but nothing gets through to you shonogon, you only take the answer you think is right) and you say for it's own good. I pary that the EU does not become the leading superpower, there is no good to come of it and if you cannot see that then you are blind.

Of course!! Exactely! "How can we achieve world peace" is the ultimate question! That's why I started this debate. Thinking about America's role in this, is not that bad an exercise, I think.

Again, when the world sees America as the biggest threat to world peace, then the questions should be focused around the future of the American Empire, and on how to cope with it today.

World peace and the Pax Americana are virtually the same thing, today.
 
  • #71
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"Americans are culturally inferior" was of course just a title to get a debate going. Less virulent than "Americans are genetically superior", I think.



So please, let's focus on the original question.

How to cope with Empire, and what are the longterm effects of an imperial culture on both that culture itself, and on other cultures.
 
  • #72
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Again, when the world sees America as the biggest threat to world peace, then the questions should be focused around the future of the American Empire, and on how to cope with it today

The biggest threat to world peace is people like you who criticize America for helping smaller countries and taking it's role as the leading superpower. Saddam had to go down, the taliban had to go down, al quedqa had to go down. Or, since you are so anti american, do you support terrorism too? We aren't the biggest threat to world peace, we are trying to make world peace. You can't have world peace with tyrants and dictators like in Iraq and liberia.
 
  • #73
kat
26
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Originally posted by Shadow
I pary that the EU does not become the leading superpower, there is no good to come of it and if you cannot see that then you are blind.
*nervous laugh* we've already seen what happens when Europians become super powers and it ain't pretty...in fact I dare say many of the issues in the middle east, past and present issues in the NEW Europe and definately issues in Africa(Ivory coast, rwanda etc.) can be traced directly to actions of OLD Europe I'd also suggest that past guilt is the physicological base of which much of OLD Europes anti-Ameircan vitriol is built upon. The thought of a France-German-Russia based superpower...makes me shudder..in fact I believe I just felt the earth tremble just thinking about it. Their combined history makes the U.S. government look like a bunch of boyscouts. If that's cultural superiority they are welcomed to it.
 
  • #74
Zero
This one's about done, isn't it?
 
  • #75
kat
26
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Originally posted by shonagon53
Sir, I'm sorry, I don't understand your problem. When I said that more South Koreans see America as a bigger threat than North Korea, I only read the results of a poll.

I'm sorry if you can't cope with that. Wether I put it in quotes or not, doesn't change the fact.

Please visit this link, and see for yourself (this is really the third and last time I ask you to do this little effort). You will see that it says: "Who is more dangerous? Q: America or North Korea?" and the answer reads: "49% of South Koreans see America as a bigger threat to peace and stability, 39% of them see North Korea as the
bigger threat".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/programmes/wtwta/poll/html/military/global_security.stm



Wheter I put this in quotes or not, has nothing to do with the subject. Please visit the link, and talk about the subject, not about details.

How is it possible that more South Koreans see America as the biggest threat compared to North Korea? I mean, this is an incredible idea--having in mind that America sees South Korea as an ally against North Korea, having in mind that America thinks everyone agrees that North Korea is more evil than themselves, while the immediate neighbours of that country see it totally differently. I means that's a disastrous poll result!

Shonagon- S.Koreans don't state that they see the U.S. as a greater "threat", they state that it is more "dangerous"..subtle difference I know..but a difference none the less. It is also important to know what term "dangerous" was translated to/from in the polls, a simple study of the different linguistic meanings of the term "roadmap" as translated into other countries media and polls can be very eye opening.
I find it impacting and interesting that (according to this poll) although South Korea finds the U.S. more DANGEROUS then North Korea it also finds that U.S. presence in that area of the country "increases peace and stability". This suggest a bit of a conundrum, don't you agree?
 
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