Ampere's law in differential form

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SUMMARY

This discussion focuses on understanding Ampere's Law in its differential form, specifically addressing the significance of the partial derivatives and the negative signs in the equations. The participants clarify that the partial derivative of the magnetic field component, ##B_y##, is defined as the change in the magnetic field over an infinitesimal distance, ##dx##. The negative sign arises from the convention of counterclockwise circulation in the integral, affecting the orientation of the vector components involved in the calculations.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of vector calculus, specifically partial derivatives
  • Familiarity with magnetic field concepts and notation
  • Knowledge of line integrals and their applications in electromagnetism
  • Basic grasp of Ampere's Law and its differential form
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  • Study the derivation of Ampere's Law in differential form
  • Learn about vector field orientation and its implications in electromagnetism
  • Explore the concept of line integrals in the context of magnetic fields
  • Investigate the significance of the right-hand rule in determining vector directions
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Students of physics, particularly those studying electromagnetism, educators teaching vector calculus, and researchers focusing on magnetic field analysis will benefit from this discussion.

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Screen Shot 2019-09-24 at 10.03.28.png
According to this image, in the attached files there is the demonstration of the ampere's law in differential form. Bur i have some difficulties in understanding some passages. Probably I'm not understanding how to consider those two magnetic vectors oriented and why have different name.

in particular:

the following, i don't get why do i need such partial derivative
Screen Shot 2019-09-24 at 10.03.55.png

following, i don't understand why that minus in front of the partial derivative

Screen Shot 2019-09-24 at 10.04.24.png


Is there anyone so kindly patient to help?
thanks
 

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    Screen Shot 2019-09-24 at 10.04.05.png
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By the scheme, we can see that ##B_y## is the y-component of magnetic field at location ##x+dx## (along the segment QR), and ##B'_y## is the y-component of magnetic field at location ## x## (along the segement PS) (I consider the point ##P## has coordinates ##(x,y)##). The definition of the partial derivative of ##B_y## with respect to ##x## is (for infinitesimal ##dx##)
$$\frac{\partial B_y}{\partial x}=\frac{B_y(x+dx)-B_y(x)}{dx}=\frac{B_y-B'_y}{dx}$$
from which it follows that $$B_y-B'_y=\frac{\partial B_y}{\partial x}dx$$.

The minus sign is there because we do the convention to consider the positive direction of walking through the loop, the counter clockwise direction. So we take as positive the ##B_x(y)dx ## and negative the ##B_x(y+dy)dx##, so the contribution will be ##(B_x(y)-B_x(y+dy))dx## and by similar reasoning as that in the previous paragraph (with the roles of x and y swapped) we can see that ##(B_x(y)-B_x(y+dy))=-\frac{\partial B_x}{\partial y} dy##
 
Last edited:
new vec.png


Is this the decomposition of the two vectors B' and B that i have to consider?
If not, my main problem is that I'm not understanding how the two vectors ore oriented in the lines. I understand what is the positive circulation of the integral, the main thing is that i am not seeing where on each segment the vector component is pointing.
 
Yes that is the decomposition of the two vectors. What's the problem with it?

We don't have to know if they point left or right or up or down. The reason that they become negative when we take the dot product ##\vec{B}\cdot d\vec{l}## is that the vector ##d\vec{l}## (which always points counterclockwise) becomes negative with respect to the positive unit vector ##u_x## or ##u_y##. So for example at the segment PQ it is ##d\vec{l}=dx\vec{u_x}## while at the segment RS it is ##d\vec{l}=-dx\vec{u_x}##
 
Delta2 said:
Yes that is the decomposition of the two vectors. What's the problem with it?

We don't have to know if they point left or right or up or down. The reason that they become negative when we take the dot product ##\vec{B}\cdot d\vec{l}## is that the vector ##d\vec{l}## (which always points counterclockwise) becomes negative with respect to the positive unit vector ##u_x## or ##u_y##. So for example at the segment PQ it is ##d\vec{l}=dx\vec{u_x}## while at the segment RS it is ##d\vec{l}=-dx\vec{u_x}##
i agree with that so as you say it is
## \int_p^q B_x\,dx= Bdx##

##\int_r^s B_x'\,dx=\space -B'dx ##

therefore
##(B_x-B_x')dx##

then

## B_x-B'_x=dB_x##

##dB_x=##
how the minus comes up in front of the partial?
 
it is actually ##B_x-B'_x=-dB_x## because ##B'_x=B_x(y+dy)## and ##B_x=B_x(y)##.
 

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