Ampere's Law using the Biot Savart Law

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the possibility of deriving Ampere's Law using the Biot-Savart Law and elementary calculus. Participants explore the theoretical and mathematical aspects of this derivation, including specific cases and the application of vector calculus.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether Ampere's Law can be derived using only elementary calculus, suggesting that vector calculus is necessary for a complete derivation.
  • One participant claims that a simple special case of Ampere's Law can be derived for a closed path around a current-carrying wire using the Biot-Savart Law.
  • A detailed derivation is provided for the magnetic field around a current-carrying wire, leading to a form of Ampere's Law, but it is noted that this is specific to that configuration.
  • Another participant suggests taking the curl of the integral in the Biot-Savart Law, which could lead to Maxwell's equation for the curl of B and subsequently to Ampere's Law using Stokes' theorem.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the sufficiency of elementary calculus for deriving Ampere's Law, with some asserting it is possible only in specific cases while others argue that vector calculus is essential. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the general applicability of the derivation methods proposed.

Contextual Notes

Some limitations are noted, including the dependence on specific configurations (e.g., current-carrying wire) and the need for careful application of calculus techniques such as Stokes' theorem.

anantchowdhary
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Is it possible to derive Ampere's Law(circuital) using the Biot Savart Law and elementary calculus?


Thanks
 
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Ampere's Law is equivalent to the conservation of charge i.e. the continuity equation.
 
Can you provide the derivation please..

thanks
 
Please help me! :D
 
You can derive it with vector calculus, but definitely not only with elementary calculus. But with elementary calculus it's possible to derive a simple special case of Ampere's circuital law, namely that for a closed path around a current carrying wire. There may be other (highly-symmetric) configurations for which Ampere's law can be derived from Biot-Savart, but I can't think of any at present.

For the case of the current carrying wire, the magnetic field at a distance r from the wire can be found by Biot-Savart law and is given as \frac{I}{2\pi r}. This itself can be derived by considering a particular setup, that of a current flowing upwards in a wire aligned along the z-axis towards z. By the Biot-Savart law:

d\textbf{B} = \frac{\mu_0 Id\textbf{L} \times \textbf{r}}{4\pi r^3}.
For this setup, d\textbf{L} = dz \textbf{k} \ \mbox{and} \ \textbf{r} = x\textbf{i} + y\textbf{j} + z\textbf{k} and this makes the numerator of the dB expression (x\textbf{j} - y\textbf{i})dz by the cross product.

So integrating the above from -infinity to +infinity along the z-axis of current flow gives:

\frac{I\mu_0}{4\pi} \int_{-\infty}^{\infty} \frac{-y}{(x^2+y^2+z^2)^{3/2}} \textbf{i} + \int_{-\infty}^{\infty} \frac{x}{(x^2+y^2+z^2)^{3/2}} \textbf{j}

This reduces to the following after substituting for the limits of the integral expression:

\frac{I\mu_0}{2\pi} \left( -\frac{y}{x^2+y^2} \textbf{i} + \frac{x}{x^2+y^2} \textbf{j}\right).

And the magnitude of the vector to be \frac{I\mu_0}{2\pi r}, where r=\sqrt{x^2+y^2}.

So, with this one can prove Ampere's circuital law for the simple case of a current carrying wire. Starting with \oint \textbf{B} \cdot d\textbf{r}, note that the value of magnetic flux density does not change with the line integral around the wire at the same radius, so that means we can take B outside of the integral and the closed path integral reduces to the circumference of a circle about the wire. So this means that \textbf{B} \oint d\textbf{r} = B (2\pi r). And with the expression for B as derived above, \frac{I\mu_0}{2\pi r} 2 \pi r = I\mu_0.

You can find a clearer and better derivation for this in any introductory physics textbook.
 
anantchowdhary said:
Is it possible to derive Ampere's Law(circuital) using the Biot Savart Law and elementary calculus?
Thanks
Take the curl of the integral in the B-S law.
If done, carefully, this gives Maxwell's eqaution for the curl of B (for static fields).
Applying Stokes' theorem to the curl of B gives Ampere's law.
 

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