An issue with Conical Pendulums

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a conical pendulum problem involving a mass of 4.25 kg attached to a tether of length 2.78 m, which completes a rotation every 3.22 seconds. The participants are exploring how to determine the angle the rope makes with its original position, utilizing concepts of tension and circular motion.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the use of force tension equations and trigonometric functions to find the angle. There are attempts to set equations equal to each other based on the components of forces acting on the mass. Some participants question the clarity of the original poster's approach and suggest the use of free-body diagrams and simultaneous equations to analyze the forces involved.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants providing guidance on how to approach the problem. There is a recognition of the need to clarify the relationships between the forces and the geometry of the pendulum. Multiple interpretations of the problem are being explored, particularly regarding the use of tension and the definitions of angles.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note that certain variables such as height, radius, velocity, and centripetal acceleration are unknown, which may impact the analysis. There is also a mention of the unusual nature of the mass being a cat, which some find distracting from the physics discussion.

ohmanitsDAAAAAN
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Homework Statement


A conical pendulum with an unelastic tether has a mass of 4.25 kg attached to it. The tether is 2.78 m. The mass travels around the center every 3.22 seconds.

What angle does the rope make in relation to its original position?
m=4.25 kg
T=3.22 s
L=2.78 m

Homework Equations



FTx=4(pi^2)R/T^2m
FTy=mg
R=Lcos(phi)

The Attempt at a Solution


To find the angle, I decided to use equations for force tension, then set the equations equal to each other using trigonometric functions, cosine on the equation for FTy and sine on the equation for FTx. The cosine on FTy canceled out with the cosine on the inserted equation for R, as well as the mass on both sides, leaving me with 4(pi^2)Lcos(phi)/T^2 on one side of the equation, and g on the other. However, I seem to have hit a snag. I cannot use inverse trig functions, as I do not have phi yet. I either messed up the symbolics, or something else is amiss.
 
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It should be mentioned that the height, radius, velocity, centripetal acceleration, and angle are unknown.

Also unrelated yet mentionable, the mass in question is a cat a disgruntled Ukrainian tied up.
 
I'm not following your working.
i.e. I don't know what you mean by "I use the force-tension equations" ... shouldn't you be using physics?

Recap: You have the mass m, the period T of the rotation, the length L of the tether, and you know it is a cone - so you just need a free-body diagram. What sort of motion does the mass execute? What should the forces add up to.

If the half-angle at the apex of the cone is ##\alpha##, then ##L\sin\alpha = R##, the radius of the base...
Then ##F_T\sin\alpha=F_c## is the centripetal force, and ##mg=F_T\cos\alpha##
... is that where you are up to? I think you have ##\phi = \frac{\pi}{2}-\alpha## giving you cosines where I have sines.

You should be able to get ##F_T## and ##\phi## by simultaneous equations.

A disgruntled cat tied up as a conical pendulum seems pretty unmentionable to me...
 
ohmanitsDAAAAAN said:

Homework Equations



FTx=4(pi^2)R/T^2m
FTy=mg
R=Lcos(phi)

The Attempt at a Solution


To find the angle, I decided to use equations for force tension, then set the equations equal to each other using trigonometric functions, cosine on the equation for FTy and sine on the equation for FTx. The cosine on FTy canceled out with the cosine on the inserted equation for R, as well as the mass on both sides, leaving me with 4(pi^2)Lcos(phi)/T^2 on one side of the equation, and g on the other. However, I seem to have hit a snag. I cannot use inverse trig functions, as I do not have phi yet. I either messed up the symbolics, or something else is amiss.
It is confusing that you use T both for tension and time period. If FT is the tension, you can eliminate it by dividing the x and y components, giving ##\frac{4\pi^2R}{gT^2}=tan(\phi)##. Substitute the third equation for R. And you certainly know how the tangent and cosine of an angle are related.
 

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