Analytically solve second-order coupled ODE (damping term coupled)

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around solving a system of coupled second-order ordinary differential equations (ODEs) with damping terms. The equations involve variables representing the rates of change of two functions, x and y, with respect to time, and are subject to specific initial conditions.

Discussion Character

  • Mixed

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore various methods, including direct manipulation of the ODEs, substitution, and the use of Laplace transforms. Some express confusion about the transformation process and the resulting equations, while others suggest alternative approaches such as matrix methods.

Discussion Status

There is an ongoing exploration of different methods to tackle the problem. Some participants have provided suggestions that seem to guide the discussion towards potential solutions, but no consensus has been reached on a definitive method or outcome.

Contextual Notes

Participants note specific initial conditions and constraints, such as the relationship between the damping coefficient and the parameters in the equations. There is also mention of the complexity introduced by the coupling of the equations and the nature of the coefficients involved.

chilge
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Homework Statement


I need to (analytically) solve a system of coupled second-order ODEs:
(A) \frac{du}{dt} - fv = \Omega^2x
(B) \frac{dv}{dt} + fu = \Omega^2y

where

u = \frac{dx}{dt}
v = \frac{dy}{dt}

subject to the initial conditions u(t=0) = U and v(t=0) = 0.

Homework Equations


---

The Attempt at a Solution


(1) I first converted the ODEs to:
\frac{d^2x}{dt^2} - f\frac{dy}{dt} = \Omega^2x
\frac{d^2y}{dt^2} + f\frac{dx}{dt} = \Omega^2y

and then added and subtracted them to get:
\frac{d^2(x+y)}{dt^2} - f\frac{d(x-y)}{dt} = \Omega^2(x+y)
\frac{d^2(x-y)}{dt^2} - f\frac{d(x+y)}{dt} = \Omega^2(x-y)

then making the substitution
\alpha = x + y
\beta = x - y

which just leads me to the exact problem I started with.

Since I got stuck here, I tried it a different way...

(2) Making note that, from (B), u=\frac{1}{f}(\Omega^2y - \frac{dv}{dt}). Plugging into A, we get:
\frac{1}{f}(\Omega^2\frac{dy}{dt} - \frac{d^2v}{dt^2})-fv=\Omega^2x
(...after rearranging...)
\frac{d^2v}{dt^2} + v(f-\frac{\Omega^2}{f}) = -\Omega^2x

Since v=\frac{dy}{dt}, this is now a third order coupled ODE (after we do something similar to above for u), and I don't know how to solve it.

Does anyone know where to go from here?
 
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chilge said:

Homework Statement


I need to (analytically) solve a system of coupled second-order ODEs:
(A) \frac{du}{dt} - fv = \Omega^2x
(B) \frac{dv}{dt} + fu = \Omega^2y

where

u = \frac{dx}{dt}
v = \frac{dy}{dt}

subject to the initial conditions u(t=0) = U and v(t=0) = 0.

Homework Equations


---

The Attempt at a Solution


(1) I first converted the ODEs to:
\frac{d^2x}{dt^2} - f\frac{dy}{dt} = \Omega^2x
\frac{d^2y}{dt^2} + f\frac{dx}{dt} = \Omega^2y

and then added and subtracted them to get:
\frac{d^2(x+y)}{dt^2} - f\frac{d(x-y)}{dt} = \Omega^2(x+y)
\frac{d^2(x-y)}{dt^2} - f\frac{d(x+y)}{dt} = \Omega^2(x-y)

then making the substitution
\alpha = x + y
\beta = x - y

which just leads me to the exact problem I started with.

Since I got stuck here, I tried it a different way...

(2) Making note that, from (B), u=\frac{1}{f}(\Omega^2y - \frac{dv}{dt}). Plugging into A, we get:
\frac{1}{f}(\Omega^2\frac{dy}{dt} - \frac{d^2v}{dt^2})-fv=\Omega^2x
(...after rearranging...)
\frac{d^2v}{dt^2} + v(f-\frac{\Omega^2}{f}) = -\Omega^2x

Since v=\frac{dy}{dt}, this is now a third order coupled ODE (after we do something similar to above for u), and I don't know how to solve it.

Does anyone know where to go from here?

It looks like the easiest way to solve your system is to use Laplace transforms. Let ##X = X(s) = {\cal L}[x(t)](s)## and ##Y = Y(s) = {\cal L}[y(t)](s)##, then get two coupled linear equations for ##X(s),Y(s)##. You would need to use standard results for relating the Laplace transforms of ## x'(t)## and ##x''(t)## to that of ##x(t)##, etc.
 
Ray Vickson said:
It looks like the easiest way to solve your system is to use Laplace transforms. Let ##X = X(s) = {\cal L}[x(t)](s)## and ##Y = Y(s) = {\cal L}[y(t)](s)##, then get two coupled linear equations for ##X(s),Y(s)##. You would need to use standard results for relating the Laplace transforms of ## x'(t)## and ##x''(t)## to that of ##x(t)##, etc.
Hi Ray,

Thank you for your suggestion! It's been quite awhile since I've seen Laplace transforms and had forgotten about them. Unfortunately I ran into a bit of trouble when trying to find a solution...

##{\cal L}\{x(t)\}=X(s)##
##{\cal L}\{\frac{dx}{dt}\} = sX(s) - x(0) = sX(s)## (with the initial condition ##x(t=0) = 0##)
##{\cal L}\{\frac{du}{dt}\} = s^2X(s) - u(0) = s^2X(s) - U##

and

##{\cal L}\{y(t)\}=Y(s)##
##{\cal L}\{\frac{dy}{dt}\} = sY(s) - y(0) = sX(s)## (with the initial condition ##y(t=0) = 0##)
##{\cal L}\{\frac{dv}{dt}\} = s^2Y(s) - v(0) = s^2Y(s) ##

Then, taking the Laplace transforms of the coupled ODEs in the problem statement, we get:
##s^2X(s) + U - fsY(s) = \Omega^2X(s)##
##s^2Y(s) + fsX(s) = \Omega^2Y(s)##

Isolating ##X## from the second equation, we get ##X(s) = \frac{Y(s)(\Omega^2 - s^2)}{fs}##

Then, plugging into the first equation,
##s\frac{Y(s)(\Omega^2 - s^2)}{fs} + U - fsY(s) = \Omega^2\frac{Y(s)(\Omega^2 - s^2)}{fs}##

Leading to
##Y(s)=\frac{-U}{\frac{\Omega^2s - s^3}{f}-fs-\frac{\Omega^4 - s^2\Omega^2}{fs}} = \frac{fUs}{f^2s^2 + s^4 - 2s^2\Omega^2 + \Omega^4}##

I don't see how I can decompose this into partial fractions so that I can get ##y(t) = {\cal L}^{-1}\{Y(s)\}##. Have I gone wrong somewhere or is this problem not solvable using Laplace transforms?
 
If you set z = x + iy then your system reduces to the second-order autonomous linear ODE with constant coefficients<br /> \frac{d^2 z}{dt^2} + if\frac{dz}{dt} - \Omega^2 z = 0 subject to z&#039;(0) = U. The standard method of solving such ODEs will still work even though one of the coefficients is not real, so the general solution will be z(t) = Ae^{k_1 t} + Be^{k_2 t} where A and B are complex constants and k_1 and k_2 are the roots of k^2 + ifk - \Omega^2 = 0. It is possible to obtain four linearly-independent real-valued solutions from this general solution.
 
pasmith said:
If you set z = x + iy then your system reduces to the second-order autonomous linear ODE with constant coefficients<br /> \frac{d^2 z}{dt^2} + if\frac{dz}{dt} - \Omega^2 z = 0 subject to z&#039;(0) = U. The standard method of solving such ODEs will still work even though one of the coefficients is not real, so the general solution will be z(t) = Ae^{k_1 t} + Be^{k_2 t} where A and B are complex constants and k_1 and k_2 are the roots of k^2 + ifk - \Omega^2 = 0. It is possible to obtain four linearly-independent real-valued solutions from this general solution.
Hi pasmith,

Thank you for your suggestion! That did the trick, and I was able to come up with a solution for ##x(t)## and ##y(t)##. I forgot to mention in my problem statement that ##f=2\Omega##, so the characteristic equation ##k^2+ifk-\Omega^2## has a double root, and the solution is of the form ##z(t)=Ae^{rt}+Bte^{rt}##.

My solutions were
##x(t) = Utcos(\Omega t)##
##y(t) = -Utsin(\Omega t)##
which satisfy the initial coupled ODEs.

Thank you again for your help!
 
Another possible approach: You have
\begin{eqnarray*}
\dot{x} &= u \\
\dot{y} &= v \\
\dot{u} &= fv + \Omega^2 x \\
\dot{v} &= -fu + \Omega^2 y
\end{eqnarray*} which you can solve using matrix methods.
 
vela said:
Another possible approach: You have
\begin{eqnarray*}
\dot{x} &= u \\
\dot{y} &= v \\
\dot{u} &= fv + \Omega^2 x \\
\dot{v} &= -fu + \Omega^2 y
\end{eqnarray*} which you can solve using matrix methods.

Hi vela, I only know how to solve the matrix problem numerically. Do you know how I can get an analytical solution with matrix methods?
 

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