Any deep cause of magnetic field

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the causes of magnetic fields, exploring the relationship between electric and magnetic fields, and the implications of special relativity on these concepts. Participants examine various theoretical perspectives, including the role of moving charges and time-dependent fields.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether a moving electric field is the cause of a magnetic field and seeks clarification on the relationship between electric and magnetic fields.
  • Another participant asserts that moving charges produce a magnetic field, and that a changing electric field also generates a magnetic field, referencing special relativity as a framework for understanding these phenomena.
  • It is noted that the equation curl H = J indicates that currents are a source of magnetic fields, while a time-dependent magnetic field can create electric fields, but a time-dependent electric field cannot create a magnetic field.
  • A participant requests elaboration on the relationship between curl E and curl H, specifically mentioning the importance of the displacement current term in electromagnetic radiation.
  • One participant emphasizes that electric and magnetic fields are mutually inclusive under dynamic conditions, suggesting that if one changes with time, the other must also be present.
  • Another participant introduces the idea that a transverse electric field in one reference frame can transform into a transverse magnetic field in another reference frame through a Lorentz transformation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of the relationship between electric and magnetic fields, with some emphasizing the role of moving charges and others focusing on the implications of special relativity. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the deeper causes of magnetic fields and the precise nature of their relationship with electric fields.

Contextual Notes

Some statements rely on specific definitions and assumptions about electric and magnetic fields, and the discussion includes references to mathematical formulations that may not be fully resolved within the thread.

Nikaro
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when we apply potential difference across any conductor the electric field set up in the conductor which apply force on charged particles and set up moving current.While the current is moving the charge which is at the outer surface of conductor also make elecricfield which is moving along the conductor.
Is this moving electric field is the cause of magnetic field ?
If it is not than please please tell me the reason of magnetic field?
And is there is any deep relation between magnetic and electric field.
 
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Not sure what you mean by a moving electrical field. Moving charges produce a magnetic field, but also an electrical field that changes with time produces a magnetic field.

I think one of the nicest and deepest understanding of magnetic fields arise from special relativity. Where a magnetic and electric field are part of the same phenomenon. Different observers will see different type of fields.
 
One reason is that curl H = J, meaning that currents are the cause of magnetic fields. Another reason (which you point out) is that a Lorentz transformation on an electric field creates a magnetic field. A time-dependent magnetic field does create electric fields (curl E = - dB/dt), but a time dependent electric field (=dE/dt) cannot create a magnetic field.
 
Bob S said:
A time-dependent magnetic field does create electric fields (curl E = - dB/dt), but a time dependent electric field (=dE/dt) cannot create a magnetic field.

Could you elaborate on this seeing as

[tex] \nabla \times \vec{B}=\mu_0 \vec{J}+\mu_0 \epsilon_0 \frac{\partial \vec{E}}{\partial t}[/tex].
 
Cyosis said:
Could you elaborate on this seeing as

[tex] \nabla \times \vec{B}=\mu_0 \vec{J}+\mu_0 \epsilon_0 \frac{\partial \vec{E}}{\partial t}[/tex].
Mea culpa. I should have included the displacement current term, which makes the Curl E and Curl H equations more symmetric, and is very important in electromagnetic radiation, especially when there are no conductors around.
 
E & H are mutually inclusive under dynamic conditions, i.e. one cannot exist w/o the other. If one is time-changing, the other must be non-zero. Einstein in his 1905 paper, described that neither one is the "seat" ("seat" meaning basis or primary).

Claude
 
There is another source of a magnetic field. A transverse electric field in one reference frame can be converted into a transverse magnetic field in another reference frame by a Lorentz transformation:

BT' = γBT - (γ/c2) v x ET

α β γ δ ε ζ η θ ι κ λ μ ν ξ ο π ρ ς σ τ υ φ χ ψ ω . . . . . Γ Δ Θ Λ Ξ Π Σ Φ Ψ Ω
 

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