News Apparently, I am a traitor *shrugs*

[selfAdjoint]

This is the way I size it up too. Most of the current polarization is due to the bullying tactics that, along with constant lying, are the characteristics of the Bush administration.

But there is a long term polarization too, that they are exploiting but did not create. Political scientists point out that the population is about 50-50 split on many issues. The war is one, of course, a whole generation was radicalized by 9/11; the point is the radicalization went two ways, right and left, and currently the right holds the upper hand.

But social issues are the underlying polarizer. Abortion, guns, crime in the cities, religious expression in public venues, and now gay marriage. For a long time the left-liberals had their way; they made abortion legal, passed the Brady bill and kept the Bible out of the public schools. But every advance of the left-liberal agenda was matched by rising indignation and fury by the small town and rural populations. Their Faith and their cherished customs were being trampled on, and they couldn't deal emotionally with the social change. So they united and pushed hard. They were never numerous enough to control the national government, but by allying with the self-interested business bloc they attained 50% parity, leading to the present situation.

I don't see a good outcome out of all this. The agenda of each bloc actually _hurts_ the people in the other bloc. It can't go on.

 

[kat]

Originally posted by Zero
Oh, absolutely there is a feeling amongst many in this country that this administration is trying to stifle debate, and intimidate politicians and pundits that disagree with the radical right-wing agenda that Bush is cramming down our throats. For instance, any politician who disagrees with any part of Bush's agenda, even Republican moderates, is bludgeoned until they get into line, or accused of being anti-American.

And on the other side of the spectrum is the feeling amongst many in this country that the LLL has become stark raving mad and equal in stifling debate by dismissing anyone who so much as corrects them on their statements, presuming immediately that if your not agreeing with them your part of the oppressive right (as opposed to the equally oppressive left), to the point of (believe it or not) educated, successful and seemingly mature adults...who in all other respects would seem calm and rational, quite literally frothing at the mouth and shooting spittle across the preciously small space (that hopefully is granting a bit of physical safety) that divides yourself and they.

Bush is divisive, no question about it. Daily reports show that Democrats in Congress are being shut out of the process of lawmaking. The Republican party has gotten confused about how American government is supposed to work. They somehow think that because they hold a majority, the government doesn't have to represent the half of Americans who don't hold their views. Remember, Gore won the popular vote in 2000, so we know about 50%(+/-) don't completely support the Republican agenda, yet BushCo. pretends that they have a mandate from the people to enact damaging policies that will take decades to fix.

Two thoughts here, it seems to me that whenever a republican becomes president, and whenever a republican majority exists there becomes an air of division..my above observations in mind..I have to wonder if it can rightfully all be blamed on Bush. I believe the presently rabid left has quite a bit to be blamed for on this front as well. If your on the "left" and you cannot accept that you might want to look in the mirror and realize you are probably one of those I'm speaking of.
Secondly, it's really hard to say that we know about 50%(+/-) don't or do support any agenda when ONLY 50%(+/-) let us know what they are thinking by taking advantage of their very precious right to vote!

 

[Loren Booda]

With which would one rather share part of our government - the Neonazis, Skinheads, White Arians, and Ku Klux Klan or the American Communist Party, Earth Liberation Front, the Weathermen, and Black Panthers?

 

[Zero]

kat, you'd have a point, if there were a powerful left wing in this country...which there is not. There is the centrist Democratic party, the left-wing Green Party, and the rabid right wing. Howard Dean, for instance, is a pragmatic centrist, not a liberal. Clinton was an avowed and actual centrist. The whole 'liberal' thing is a lie created by the right wing.

 

[kat]

Well...Zero...if you getting hung up on the LLL then just slip in Democrat or Democratic Activist, whatever lable you want to put on them..but they're vocal, rabid, and divisive.

As for the left moving to center fiction/fact(?) sometime, in another thread, perhaps..I'd like to see comments/input from those knowledgeable on the subject as to why, when ideology is measured by applying a simple spatial voting model to the roll call
voting data this study found that

The regional differences within the Democratic Party have almost completely disappeared and Democrats as a whole have become more liberal. In contrast, Republicans have become more conservative since the 1980s. The combination of the Democrats becoming more liberal and the Republicans more conservative has resulted in a trend towards ideological polarization within both chambers.

http://voteview.uh.edu/chminds.pdf

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by kat
Well...Zero...if you getting hung up on the LLL then just slip in Democrat or Democratic Activist, whatever lable you want to put on them..but they're vocal, rabid, and divisive.

As for the left moving to center fiction/fact(?) sometime, in another thread, perhaps..I'd like to see comments/input from those knowledgeable on the subject as to why, when ideology is measured by applying a simple spatial voting model to the roll call
voting data this study found that http://voteview.uh.edu/chminds.pdf

That's pretty well nonsense, no offense...the Dems, especially from within the DNC, have specifically moved towards the center. Clinton was a perfect example. If you call Clinton a 'liberal', then it basically means you either don't see the situation objectively, or you don't understand the meaning of the word 'liberal'.

 

[kat]

Originally posted by Zero
That's pretty well nonsense, no offense...the Dems, especially from within the DNC, have specifically moved towards the center. Clinton was a perfect example. If you call Clinton a 'liberal', then it basically means you either don't see the situation objectively, or you don't understand the meaning of the word 'liberal'.

1. As I said, in another thread...but..fight the data and method..not offer your opinion.

2. What is this fetish with Clinton..nobody mentioned Clinton.

3. As I said

If your on the "left" and you cannot accept that you might want to look in the mirror and realize you are probably one of those I'm speaking of.

Note the quotation marks around "left", Zero.

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by kat
1. As I said, in another thread...but..fight the data and method..not offer your opinion.

2. What is this fetish with Clinton..nobody mentioned Clinton.

3. As I said Note the quotation marks around "left", Zero.

The point of mentioning Clinton (and Dean in another post somewhere around here) was obvious: the leaders of the Democratic Party are not moving anywhere but towards the center...doesn't it make sense to say taht the rest of the party generally follows suit?

 

[Zero]

And, I think we have hijacked my thread long enough...

 

[kat]

Originally posted by Zero
The point of mentioning Clinton (and Dean in another post somewhere around here) was obvious: the leaders of the Democratic Party are not moving anywhere but towards the center...doesn't it make sense to say taht the rest of the party generally follows suit?

Not if the data shows otherwise. I think THAT should be obvious.

 

[Zero]

Originally posted by kat
Not if the data shows otherwise. I think THAT should be obvious.

Wow, how hard did you have to dig to link me to somebody's college thesis? And, really, all that paper says is pretty much teh opposite of what you suggest it does. Nice try though, I suppose.