Applications of Derivative - Find no. of roots of

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a problem involving a twice differentiable function f(x) with specific values at certain points and the analysis of its derivatives to determine the minimum number of roots of the function g(x) = (f'(x))^2 + f''(x)f(x) within a defined interval.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the implications of the function's values at specific points and the nature of its derivatives. There are discussions about the minimum number of roots based on the behavior of f(x) and its derivatives, with some suggesting sketches to visualize the function's behavior.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with the problem, offering hints and questioning assumptions about the nature of f(x) and its derivatives. There is a recognition of the complexity involved in determining the minimum number of roots, with various interpretations being explored without a clear consensus yet.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note that f(x) need not be a polynomial and emphasize the importance of considering turning points and inflection points in their reasoning. There is also mention of the potential for trivial zeros in g(x) based on the behavior of f(x) and its derivatives.

AGNuke
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if f(x) is twice differentiable function such that f(a)=0; f(b)=2; f(c)=-1; f(d)=2; f(e)=0, where a<b<c<d<e; then minimum number of zeroes of g(x) = (f'(x))2+f''(x)f(x) in the interval [a,e] is ...


All I can figure out is that at the least, it is a 4-degree polynomial with roots a, (b,c) (a root in between b and c), (c,d), e.
 
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Here's a hint. What's the second derivative of f(x)^2?
 
f need not be a polynomial
f must have at least four roots. for eg. in the interval [b,c], f must cross the x-axis any odd number of times ;)

So sketch the least-zeros case - just guess.
For the same guess, sketch the first and second derivative. You'll see that f' is zero at turning points (and points of inflection - but you want least zeros, so your guess for f should probably avoid inflections) and f'' is zero when there are turning points in f'.

Notice that any number multiplied by zero is zero.
Compare your values with g(x).
 
This is my attempt. My mind was too fogged due to illness that I can't see something.

[tex]g(x)=\frac{\mathrm{d} }{\mathrm{d} x}(f(x).f'(x))[/tex]

Integrating g(x) with respect to x.

[tex]G(x)=f(x).f'(x)[/tex]

Now G(x) has minimum 7 zeroes (4 for f(x); 3 for f'(x)); therefore, g(x) must have minimum 6 zeroes.
 
That may not be the minimum for G(x) if f has a turning point at a zero.
This is part of why I suggested sketching f(x).

If you integrate an order 4 polynomial with 4 distinct zeros, do you usually get fewer zeros? Don't you normally reduce the order by differentiating?

In fact - looking at g(x) - it seems it may have trivial zeros where f'(x) and either f(x) or f''(x) are zero. ie either f(x) has a turning point where f(x)=0 or f'(x) has a turning point where f'(x)=0. Is this the case?

Non-trivially, (f'(x))^2 is always positive, while f''(x).f(x) may be positive or negative ... so there are likely to be some places where f''(x).f(x)=-(f'(x))^2
 
I sketched f(x). Roots of f(x) are a, (b,c), (c,d), e. I can think of a graph similar to a 4 degree polynomial.

I simply deduced G(x) which is ∫g(x).dx Looking upon the question, Since it is asking for minimum roots, f(x) is set to 4 degree polynomial, at least can be assumed for the given interval. We only have to find the roots of g(x) in [a,e], so 4 roots (minimum) of f(x) in the interval. So I think there should be no inflection points there.

As of f'(x), Since there are no inflection points, there must be (4-1)=3 zeroes, each between successive zeroes of f(x).

G(x) = f(x).f'(x) have 7 zeroes at minimum. Therefore, differential of G(x), which is g(x) have 6 zeroes.

I see nothing wrong in it... :frown:
 

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