Approaching Question C1: Finding Roots of Elements in a Field

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the approach to solving questions related to finding roots of elements in a field, specifically focusing on the implications of certain assumptions about the field's structure and the nature of polynomial factorization. The scope includes theoretical exploration and mathematical reasoning.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses difficulty in approaching question C1, noting implicit assumptions about the field F being abelian or the roots being in the center of F, which they believe are not valid.
  • The same participant identifies relationships between field extensions but struggles to consolidate these ideas into a solution.
  • Another participant claims to have solved question C1 by showing, via contradiction, that w is in the center of K, leading to the conclusion that \(F(d,\omega)\) is the root field.
  • This participant then shifts focus to question C2, claiming they can falsify its assertion using a specific example involving the field of rational numbers and polynomial factorization.
  • Further speculation arises regarding a potential typo in the question, with one participant suggesting that the intention may have been to indicate that one factor should have a degree less than or equal to 2, rather than both factors.
  • Another participant concurs with the idea that proving one factor has a degree greater than 2 would be more relevant in the context of rational numbers and the inclusion of complex numbers in the extended field.
  • There is a sentiment expressed that question C2 may not be necessary for completing the proof regarding the irreducibility of \(x^p-a\) over F.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the validity of assumptions made in the questions and the necessity of question C2. There is no consensus on the interpretation of the questions or the relevance of certain factors in polynomial factorization.

Contextual Notes

Participants note potential limitations in the phrasing of the questions, particularly regarding the degree of polynomial factors and the implications of these degrees on the structure of the field. The discussion reflects uncertainty about the requirements for proving irreducibility and the nature of roots in the context of the given field.

Kiwi1
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View attachment 5969

Any suggestions on how I should approach question C1?

Every time I think I have a solution I find that I have made the implicit assumption either that F is abelian or that the roots of w are in the center of F. I don't think either assumption is valid.

If I let K be the root field of the poly then clearly it must contain d, but I have been unable to show that it must contain w.

I can see that:
\([F(\omega):F] \leq p-1\)

\([F(d):F] \leq p\)

\([F(d,\omega):F]=[F(d,\omega):F(d)][F(d):F]\)

\([F(d,\omega):F]=[F(d,\omega):F(\omega)][F(\omega):F]\)

But don't seem to be able to form these ideas into a solution.
 

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OK so solved Q1. It was straightforward to show (by contradiction) that w is in the center of K. From there it is easy enough to show that \(F(d,\omega)\) is the root field.

But now I can't solve Q2. In fact I can falsify the assertion of Q2 as follows:

Let F be the field of rational numbers.

\(x^5-2^5=(x-2)(x^4+2x^3+4x^2+8x+16)\)

So with p=5 and a=32 I get:
\(x^p-a=f(x)p(x)\) where f(x) has degree 1 and p(x) has degree 4
 
Kiwi said:
OK so solved Q1. It was straightforward to show (by contradiction) that w is in the center of K. From there it is easy enough to show that \(F(d,\omega)\) is the root field.

But now I can't solve Q2. In fact I can falsify the assertion of Q2 as follows:

Let F be the field of rational numbers.

\(x^5-2^5=(x-2)(x^4+2x^3+4x^2+8x+16)\)

So with p=5 and a=32 I get:
\(x^p-a=f(x)p(x)\) where f(x) has degree 1 and p(x) has degree 4

I think the question is asking to show this:

We can factor $x^p-a$ as $f(x)p(x)$ where both factors have degree at least $2$. (Note that the question says "at most" in place of "at least", but this is clearly a typo since then deg(x^p-a)=p\leq 4).
 
Once we start to speculate on what a typo is things get hard. Perhaps they mean ONE factor is \(\leq 2\). The example I have shown has one factor of degree \(\leq 2\) and one \(\geq 2\).

Looking at the subsequent questions it would make more sense to me that they would want me to prove ONE factor has degree greater than 2. In the context of the rational numbers that would ensure that the extended field includes a complex number.

Having completed questions C3-C7, I can't see why question C2 is required to complete the proof that: \(x^p-a\) either has a root in F or is irreducible over F.
 
Last edited:
Kiwi said:
Once we start to speculate on what a typo is things get hard. Perhaps they mean ONE factor is \(\leq 2\). The example I have shown has one factor of degree \(\leq 2\) and one \(\geq 2\).

Looking at the subsequent questions it would make more sense to me that they would want me to prove ONE factor has degree greater than 2. In the context of the rational numbers that would ensure that the extended field includes a complex number.

Having completed questions C3-C7, I can't see why question C2 is required to complete the proof that: \(x^p-a\) either has a root in F or is irreducible over F.
I think you are right. Anyway, I don't think this question is worth the time. :)
 

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