Approximating Field of Permanent Magnet with Micro-Currents?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the approximation of the magnetic field of a permanent magnet using the Biot-Savart Law applied to microscopic currents. Participants explore the arrangement of these currents and the implications of their orientation on bulk magnetization.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the magnetic field of a permanent magnet arises from billions of microscopic magnetic moments.
  • There is a suggestion to use the Biot-Savart Law to model these moments as microscopic currents, but the arrangement of these currents in space is questioned.
  • One participant asks how magnetic dipoles should be arranged and speculates on the effect of random orientation on bulk magnetization.
  • A participant suggests a model using circular current loops arranged like stacked cans, indicating a visual representation of the proposed configuration.
  • There is a challenge regarding the summation of the "infinite series" off-axis solution from each current loop, raising concerns about the complexity of the model.
  • A request for pointers or suggestions to refine the simplistic model is made, indicating a desire for constructive feedback.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express curiosity and explore various ideas, but there is no consensus on the arrangement of currents or the implications of their orientation on the magnetic field.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about the arrangement of magnetic dipoles and the mathematical complexity of summing contributions from multiple current loops, which remain unresolved.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those exploring magnetic fields, modeling techniques in electromagnetism, or the theoretical underpinnings of magnetism in materials.

tade
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According to theory, the magnetic field of a permanent magnet is due to the combined effects of billions of microscopic magnetic moments.

I'm trying to use the Biot -Savart Law for billions of microscopic currents to approximate a the field of a permanent magnet.

How should these currents (or circuits) be arranged in space?
 
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tade said:
According to theory, the magnetic field of a permanent magnet is due to the combined effects of billions of microscopic magnetic moments.

I'm trying to use the Biot -Savart Law for billions of microscopic currents to approximate a the field of a permanent magnet.

How should these currents (or circuits) be arranged in space?

How do you think those magnetic dipoles should be arranged in the first place? What do you think will happen to the bulk magnetization if these dipoles are randomly oriented?

BTW, who is torturing you to do such a silly thing?

Zz.
 
ZapperZ said:
How do you think those magnetic dipoles should be arranged in the first place? What do you think will happen to the bulk magnetization if these dipoles are randomly oriented?

BTW, who is torturing you to do such a silly thing?

Zz.
It is just out of curiosity.I was thinking of arranging them like the cans in this picture:

energy%20drink%20overload.jpg


Imagine that the rim of each can represents one circular circuit/current loop. Then we can stack layer upon layer of cans.
 
tade said:
It is just out of curiosity.I was thinking of arranging them like the cans in this picture:

energy%20drink%20overload.jpg


Imagine that the rim of each can represents one circular circuit/current loop. Then we can stack layer upon layer of cans.

Then I'd love to see how you will handle the summing up of the "infinite series" off-axis solution from each of these current loop.

Zz.
 
ZapperZ said:
Then I'd love to see how you will handle the summing up of the "infinite series" off-axis solution from each of these current loop.

Zz.
Umm, thanks for the... encouragement?
 
ZapperZ said:
Then I'd love to see how you will handle the summing up of the "infinite series" off-axis solution from each of these current loop.

Would you like to give me some pointer/suggestions/changes to this simplistic model?
 

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