Are You a Vegetarian? | Poll & Discussion

[Evo]

This is the actual abstract which doesn't contain the confusing verbiage.

This review summarizes the effect of a habitual vegetarian diet on clinical complications in relation to chemistry and biochemistry. Omnivores have a significantly higher cluster of cardiovascular risk factors compared with vegetarians, including increased body mass index, waist to hip ratio, blood pressure, plasma total cholesterol (TC), triacylglycerol and LDL-C levels, serum lipoprotein(a) concentration, plasma factor VII activity, ratios of TC/HDL-C, LDL-C/HDL-C and TAG/HDL-C, and serum ferritin levels. Compared with omnivores, vegetarians, especially vegans, have lower serum vitamin B12 concentration and n-3 polyunsaturated fatty acid (PUFA) levels in the tissue membrane phospholipids, which are associated with increased collagen and ADP stimulated ex vivo whole blood platelet aggregation, plasma 11-dehydrothromboxane B2, and homocysteine levels and decreased plasma HDL-C. This may be associated with an increased thrombotic and atherosclerotic risk. It is suggested that vegetarians, especially vegans, should increase their dietary n-3 PUFA and vitamin B12 intakes.

http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jf103846u?tokenDomain=presspac&tokenAccess=presspac&forwardService=showFullText&journalCode=jafcau

If you can't download the entire study, this is the actual press release, it doesn't contain the contradiction.

http://portal.acs.org/portal/acs/corg/content?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=PP_ARTICLEMAIN&node_id=223&content_id=CNBP_026605&use_sec=true&sec_url_var=region1&__uuid=f2e3a818-52bd-4a70-94a2-21fd141a2760

 

[daveb]

Thanks!

 

[Pythagorean]

My parents taught me common sense

It must have been a lot of work for your science teachers to undo such a "virtue"!

"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen."
-Einstein

 

[ArcanaNoir]

I recently decided to try being vegetarian. When I really thought about it, my diet was mostly vegetarian anyway. Mac and cheese and crackers and fruit snacks are all vegetarian anyway. So are spaghettios. Although the spaghettios are less fun without the hot dogs. Oh well, I guess I'll have to look elsewhere for fun. Like at my new flinstones vitamins...

 

[rootX]

I was vegetarian in my early age but now I don't like limiting my freedom. I would eat anything that my stomach can take. I am really interested in trying all kinds of meats.

 

[ArcanaNoir]

I wish it was like star trek and we had replicators that could make guilt-free kill-free meat.

[edit] and calorie/fat/cholesterol free meat.

 

[micromass]

I wish it was like star trek and we had replicators that could make guilt-free kill-free meat.

[edit] and calorie/fat/cholesterol free meat.

So true...

 

[ArcanaNoir]

So true...

oh and I forgot free-free meat. like, free of cost, as in, free. freeeeeeee. free food. I love when I can go outside and pick food off a tree. It's a great humanitarian feeling.Like, "hey, don't stress, the food is free!"

 

[rootX]

I wish it was like star trek and we had replicators that could make guilt-free kill-free meat.

[edit] and calorie/fat/cholesterol free meat.

Just wait a bit more! You probably missed my link http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-15402552, I posted a while ago in this thread.

You can develop all kinds of justifications to make yourself feel better and free yourself from guilt. Personally, I just choose ignorance.

 

[ArcanaNoir]

Just wait a bit more! You probably missed my link http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-15402552, I posted a while ago in this thread.

You can develop all kinds of justifications to make yourself feel better and free yourself from guilt. Personally, I just choose ignorance.

That's very interesting. What about that law prohibiting eating your experiments? That's silly. Food experiments are the best!

 

[turbo]

That's very interesting. What about that law prohibiting eating your experiments? That's silly. Food experiments are the best!

I worked with a guy that once was a research assistant at the University of Maine. They were involved with programs studying the feasibility of flash-freezing and shipping Maine lobsters. Guess what happened to the lobsters and lobster-parts that were not required? I would love to have been in Gerry's research group. (who buys the butter?)

 

[Reshma]

Wow, the thread has grown a lot since I last posted!

I haven't read all the posts on this thread, just giving my take on vegetarism. I have been a vegetarian all my life and I have never tasted any kind of meat or eggs. This really isn't uncommon in India, since there are a lot of people who are vegetarian by religion. It is more of a choice for me.

Even then, I have often been asked about the supposed lack of proteins in a vegetarian diet. But most vegetarians in India always have some form of protein in their daily diet in the form of pulses. Soybean is consumed as a pulse and used for production of vegetable oil. While soy-based food products are popular among vegetarians in western nations, tofu is virtually unknown in most parts of India.

I personally haven't experienced any health problems or fatique due to my diet (I swim regularly and do sports, btw). I have an aversion to the smell of eggs, so never tried them. Some people have spoken about the health benefits of eating fish. I cannot speak for other countries, but I would be wary of eating any seafood in India due to the high mercury levels in the seas here. Expectant mothers in particular should avoid eating fish in India.

There are hardly any organised retails selling packaged meat here. In India, one has to buy meat directly from the slaughter-houses or abattoirs as they are called here. These places are far from humane, which is also one of the many reasons why I could never bring myself to eat meat or even use leather goods.

 

[Monique]

I cannot speak for other countries, but I would be wary of eating any seafood in India due to the high mercury levels in the seas here. Expectant mothers in particular should avoid eating fish in India.

The same in the Netherlands, pregnant women are advised to avoid eating predatory fish and fish caught from rivers due to negative health effects (e.g. high mercury and PCBs).

 

[ThomasT]

Not a vegetarian. Love meat. Eat it at least three times a day usually. Grew up eating roast beef, pork and chicken, lots of potatoes and bread, and an occasional fruit and vegetable. Today my diet is mostly roast beef or beef stews with potatoes, carrots and onions. I also like broccoli which I keep and eat a lot of. Once a week I make falafel (with garbanzos, fresh herbs, garlic, onions, flour and seasoning; and tzatziki sause (with Greek yogurt, cucumber, onion, garlic, lemon and seasoning). And there's the tuna or chicken salad (it's fun to get creative with herbs and seasonings with these) sandwiches with tomato, and the eggs-grits-sausages-biscuits-bacon-potatoes-jams-yogurt breakfasts (and lots of butter).

I'm 64, only slightly overweight, with a usually normal blood pressure, and feel good, so apparently proportionately lots of fruits and vegetables isn't necessary. Of course it's possible that I would feel even better if I did eat lots of fruits and vegetables and less meat, but, as a believer in the "if it isn't broken don't mess with it" credo, I don't want to tinker with a 'diet' that allows me to eat anything I feel like eating.

Did I mention pizza -- smothered in several different meats, peppers, onions, gobs of cheese? Or "coney islands" -- beef hot dogs smothered in Greek chili, mustard, relish, onions and shredded cheddar cheese?

Whoops, I just realized this isn't the Food thread. If you'll excuse me ... I'm hungry again for more meat ... just finished second breakfast (thank you Hobbits) about 30 minutes ago.

As an aside, considering the moral conundrum that some people associate with eating meat, I wonder if the carrot beings on The Thing's planet might be having similar discussions in "Are you a carnivore??" threads.

 

[Curious3141]

Vegetarian. Lacto-ovo. But have been off the ovo for a few months.

 

[2sin54]

I don't see the point of going against nature.
I am not a vegetarian.

 

[S_Happens]

I definitely eat meat. It makes up the vast majority of my diet.

Most of the beef I eat these days is already packaged up, but I've participated in the butchering of a few pigs and cattle. I've killed and eaten many other game species. We always have some venison (whitetail deer or axis) in the freezer. I used to be an avid duck and goose hunter, but that tapered off when I started working as much as possible in preparation for going back to school.

I also live on the gulf coast, so fishing is easy and accessible. Up until I got married and bought a house, we always had fresh fish around. We haven't caught and boiled any blue crab in quite a while, but we still buy live crawfish to boil a few times a year.

I also eat lots of vegetables and fresh fruit, but they make up a smaller portion of my diet.

 

[Drakkith]

Emotionally, I could not eat any animal if I had to kill it.

But that's when it tastes the best!

 

[Evo]

But that's when it tastes the best!

 

[Drakkith]

I understand Evo. I'd have a hard time killing my cats if it came down to that.

 

[rollcast]

But that's when it tastes the best!

I must concur, freshly caught trout or mackerel are some of the nicest things you'll ever taste. No need to go over board or use any spices, just salt pepper and flour, whack them in a hot pan with butter and serve with crusty bread.

 

[PAllen]

I must concur, freshly caught trout or mackerel are some of the nicest things you'll ever taste. No need to go over board or use any spices, just salt pepper and flour, whack them in a hot pan with butter and serve with crusty bread.

I concur, but never did it myself. I only experience this traveling:

1) Row boat comes into tiny Carribean island, blows conch shell announcing fish, get chunk of red snapper caught within the hour.

2) At a small middle eastern village, our group of friends is invited to join a feast. We see live poultry being carried to a shed. They are killed and plucked while we chat and drink turkish coffee. Cooked over a fire. Never had better chicken in my life.

 

[Moonbear]

I worked with a guy that once was a research assistant at the University of Maine. They were involved with programs studying the feasibility of flash-freezing and shipping Maine lobsters. Guess what happened to the lobsters and lobster-parts that were not required? I would love to have been in Gerry's research group. (who buys the butter?)

That's about as good as the person I met from Louisiana who did research with crayfish. The project involved only females, but they couldn't buy just females, so their lab had very well-fed grad students with lots of crawfish boils of the males.

 

[turbo]

That's about as good as the person I met from Louisiana who did research with crayfish. The project involved only females, but they couldn't buy just females, so their lab had very well-fed grad students with lots of crawfish boils of the males.

Not only did Gerry and his pals get all of the unused parts of the lobsters, but they made their own "vodka" out of research-grade ethanol with a little citric acid to add a bit of sourness.

 

[Moonbear]

Not only did Gerry and his pals get all of the unused parts of the lobsters, but they made their own "vodka" out of research-grade ethanol with a little citric acid to add a bit of sourness.

You have to be careful with that. A lot of research grade alcohol is "denatured" alcohol, which means it has a small percentage of methanol or isopropanol added to keep it from being drunk. The pure stuff is basically the same as Everclear, which is dreadful!

 

[turbo]

The stuff that we had in the pulp mill lab was denatured with methanol, ethyl acetate, and even aviation gasoline. The university had real ethanol. Gerry was a little "out there" but he wasn't suicidal.

 

[richart2012]

Hi
I used Pure Vegan B12 spray.There is also a cheaper version that does not advertise vegan but says so on the label called Pure Advantage B12. The ingredients are identical.

 

[Moonbear]

Hi
I used Pure Vegan B12 spray.There is also a cheaper version that does not advertise vegan but says so on the label called Pure Advantage B12. The ingredients are identical.

That's not B12, it's a methylated form of it. Lots of "health food" shops sell these scammy products as supplements for vegans, but they aren't bioavailable forms. There is no bioavailable form in plants. Some supplements of cobalamin are produced from bacterial sources, and can be used, but there are far more scams out there than legitimate products.

Humans evolved to require a diet that includes some animal products. It doesn't need to be daily, and it doesn't need to be meat, but it does need to be an animal product of some sort...raiding the chicken house for a few sterile eggs now and then is fine. There's no sane reason to deny a person all animal products. But, instead of eatingna few animal products, they'd rather support an industry that manufactures synthetic vitamins, packages them up in plastic bottles, and ships them over long distances, and may not even be a usable form of the vitamin.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I eat everything [less breads and high carb foods] but keep the red meat to a minimum. And while I am on a low-carb diet, which by definition means relatively high fat and protein, I have probably eaten more fresh fruits and vegetables over the last year than in the previous ten [no kidding!]. Now, as long as I keep my party platter handy, I tend to eat vegetables like candy.

People here might be interested in learning more about former President Clinton's diet. He is on an extreme vegetarian diet that doesn't even allow processed plant oils. Even fish oil is forbidden. I saw the author of the diet interviewed. He claims that no one who has gone on this diet has ever had a heart attack; that some people have gone on this diet were in dire need of corrective heart surgery, but the disease was reversed through diet. He claims that while genetics plays a role, all heart disease is preventable and 100% attributable to food. A striking claim to say the least! And he claims to have the research to back it up. I've been meaning to learn more about this but hadn't gotten around to it yet.

 

[Monique]

He's on a vegan diet, here are the publications of the doctor you are speaking of:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=Ornish d [au]