Area and volume integral of vector field

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the computation of integrals involving vector fields in both two and three dimensions. Participants explore the possibility of calculating area and volume integrals for vector fields, drawing comparisons to scalar fields and discussing related mathematical concepts.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that in 2D and 3D, line and surface integrals can be computed for vector fields, but questions whether area and volume integrals for vector fields are also feasible.
  • Another participant agrees that in flat space, vector fields can be treated as multiple scalar integrals for each component, providing an example with the vector field ##\vec{F}=x\hat{i}+y\hat{j}+z\hat{k}##.
  • This participant also mentions a fundamental theorem-like formula relating surface and volume integrals involving vector fields, but expresses difficulty with notation.
  • A later reply introduces the concept of vectorial current density in electromagnetism as a specific example of a vector field that can be integrated over volume and area.
  • Another participant raises a question about the existence of inverse operations for the defined integral operations, comparing them to differential operations.
  • One participant discusses the analogy between integration and differentiation, referencing Stokes' theorem and the relationship between volume integrals and boundary integrals.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying viewpoints on the treatment of vector fields in integrals, with some agreeing on the feasibility of treating vector fields as scalar components while others question the existence of inverse operations. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the completeness of inverse operations for the defined integrals.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the complexity of defining inverse operations for multiple integral types and the nuances involved in applying the fundamental theorem of calculus in higher dimensions.

Jhenrique
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In 2 dimensions

given a scalar field f(x,y)

is possible to compute the line integral ##\int f ds## and area integral ##\iint f d^2A##.

In 3D, given a scalar field f(x,y,z)

is possible to compute the surface integral ##\iint f d^2S## and the volume integral too ##\iiint f d^3V##.

So, given a vector field in f in 2 and 3 dimensions, is possible to compute the line integral and the surface integral, respectively, but is possible to compute the area integral and the volume integral those vector fields? This make sense?
 
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Yes, in regular (flat) space you can simply treat the integrals as 2 or 3 scalar integrals for each of the components: E.g. if I want to take the volume integral of ##\vec{F}=x\hat{i}+y\hat{j}+z\hat{k}## over the unit box with corner at the origin, I would have:

$$\int_0^1\int_0^1\int_0^1( x\hat{i}+y\hat{j}+z\hat{k}) dxdydz = \frac{1}{2}\hat{i}+\frac{1}{2}\hat{j}+\frac{1}{2}\hat{k}$$

We just don't use these very much. There is one "fundamental theorem of calculus"-like formula associated with these:

$$\iint_{\partial V} \left(\hat{n}\times\vec{A}\right) dS = \iiint_V \left(\vec{\nabla}\times\vec{A}\right) dV$$

The first integral is a closed one over the boundary. I can't get oiint to work here.
 
Matterwave said:
Yes, in regular (flat) space you can simply treat the integrals as 2 or 3 scalar integrals for each of the components: E.g. if I want to take the volume integral of ##\vec{F}=x\hat{i}+y\hat{j}+z\hat{k}## over the unit box with corner at the origin, I would have:

$$\int_0^1\int_0^1\int_0^1( x\hat{i}+y\hat{j}+z\hat{k}) dxdydz = \frac{1}{2}\hat{i}+\frac{1}{2}\hat{j}+\frac{1}{2}\hat{k}$$

We just don't use these very much. There is one "fundamental theorem of calculus"-like formula associated with these:

$$\iint_{\partial V} \left(\hat{n}\times\vec{A}\right) dS = \iiint_V \left(\vec{\nabla}\times\vec{A}\right) dV$$

The first integral is a closed one over the boundary. I can't get oiint to work here.

Interetering! But in the eletromagnetism, we have the vectorial current density, that is the quantity of current by unit of volume/area. But this is the unique example that I know...
 
Hey man, you realize that we define eight integral operations, but I can't think in eight differential operations that are inverse to those. Given a function f(x) and f(x,y) too, we have 2 operations for each case: df/dx, ∫fdx, ∫∫fdxdy and d²f/dxdy. So, can you think in all inverse operations for each case in my first post?
 
Usually one expects that given an n-dimensional integral of a derivative of some kind, the derivative might "negate" in a VERY rough sense (I want to STRESS STRONGLY to not take this "negation" too seriously) one of the integrals so that you can obtain a n-1 dimensional integral along the boundary of the original volume.

These laws are therefore ANALOGOUS to the fundamental theorem of calculus (telling us differentiation is inverse to integration). They basically all arise, in one form or the other, from Stoke's theorem, which tells us that integration over a volume is kind of an inverse to the exterior derivative:

$$\int_\Omega d\omega=\oint_{\partial\Omega}\omega$$

For vector calculus, this results in many different identities, with many different forms (this is because the differential operators one sees in vector calculus are kind of like avatars of the exterior derivative, but they are sometimes non-trival constructions of it). You can find most of them in this article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vector_calculus_identities#Summary_of_important_identities

Scroll down to the "integration" section.
 

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